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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:02 pm 
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Good morning Gents!

I wish to throw some logs on a fire and start some discussion after trampling through two volumes I added to my collection last year. The Maps of Chickamauga by David A. Powell and David A. Friedrichs and The Maps of Gettysburg by Bradley M. Gottfried. I find these books very helpful in analyzing these two battles as the maps shed some badly needed new light. If you are familiar with these or even own them, do you place enough value on the sources to question some the regimental placements in HPS Gettysburg and HPS Chickamauga. I find them very helpful in scenario design and I have created my own "corrected" scenarios for viewing and analysis. I have changed unit starting positions the most in HPS Chickamauga and HPS Gettysburg Day2. I find these changes are due more to trying to match historical data with the maps designed for these games, rather than errors made by the game designers. What is your opinion?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:34 pm 
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Well, maybe the way the designer had setup the starting positions were done for a purpose. Historical starting positions are fine but if they lead to an unhistorical course and end of the scenario you have to change the setup.

Would be nice to see some before & after screenshots to compare what changed were done and how large they were.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:43 pm 
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General Hecht,

Excellent point. I would like to point out a decisive change if original starting positions were altered to historical data. In the historical scenario 39 Battle of Chickamauga Sept 19&20, 1863 9:00AM the brigades of Ector and Wilson are in battle line southeast of the Jay Mills Road. Page 55 The Maps of Chickamauga Map 4.4 9:15 AM Wilson is deployed with his left flank in the Winfrey Field and facing northwest covering Croxton's entire line. Ector is facing Northwest across the Reed Bridge Road covering Van Derveer's front. Davidson is resting facing almost due west behind and in between Wilson and Ector. If you play the historical scenario as is Wilson and Ector will not arrive to support Davidson until 10:20AM fully deployed at the earliest. Historically Wilson and Ector had been driven back by Brannan's Division with help from Scribner's Brigade of Baird's Divison by 11:00 AM. No scenario in HPS Chick reflects their historical starting positions. Why does this matter? If you alter the scenario's start positions with Ector and Wilson in their historical positions at 9:00AM it changes the strategy for the Rebel player completely. Wilson and Ector can deploy to mutually support each other and provide the beginnings of a Rebel Line. Now St. John Liddell's Division which is placed in a historical position to arrive on Wilson's left at on or about 11:00AM can extend a solid Rebel line instead of having to replace a shattered Wilson and Ector. By 11:00AM the Union player could be facing four fresh brigades mutually supporting each other. And if the Rebel plays the pat hand not committing Wilson and Ector to an attack, but instead to defense, the arrival of Cheatham's fresh large division behind the Rebel line is a game changer. Now Cheatham can be used in a flexible roll to move left, right, or even pass through the rebel line and attack with the two divisions of Walker's Reserve Corps in support. Oh and Forrest's cavalry could combine(Dibrell, Davidson, and eventually Wheeler's brigade) to extend the Rebel line up the Reeds Bridge Road and harass Thomas's left flank endlessly as there is no Union cavalry nearby to counter the move.

Obviously I have put a lot of thought into this and yes I have gamed the scenario playing both side. It putsThomas in a pickle very fast, but most importantly it allows the rebel player to gain total control of the Reeds Bridge Road which could be used to flank the entire union line during the afternoon of the first day. By dawn of the second day the rebel player could conceivably be attacking south down the Lafayette Road if the union player does not perform good reconnaissance and pick on this move early there are no nearby units to counter move before being cutoff from the good defense ground at Horseshoe Ridge.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:31 am 
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The situation seem to by dynamic at first with Davidson's men pursuing Union troopers who are later pushed back by Brannan's division. Forrest formed a line to stop the Union and Croxton halted his advance unsure of Forrest's strength.
Maybe the designer wanted this back & forth out of the game for some reasons, or the sources used just lacked the details of the initial setup, if so it was up to the designer to decide how to setup.
A comparison of the original sources and yours regarding this situation would be worth a try to see if it's just a lack of detail of the original sources or contradicting sources. If it's the former one can go with the corrected scenarios but if it's the latter it will be hard to decide what sources to follow.

Besides this, maybe the maps I see give a wrong impression but it seems like a heavily wooded terrain, how would this play out with the new Extreme FOW rule? Maybe we see Chickamauga updated this year so you can test it, I think this new rule can make a big impact in such terrain.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:33 pm 
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General Hecht Sir!

You hit the nail on the head perhaps. With heavily wooded terrain and EFO does it even make any difference. I say yes, because Wilson and Ector's more immediate support could reduce the casualties and thus the point loss taken by Davidson, he being cavalry trying to battle infantry( a lost cause as we all know, unless of course you are John Buford!). This is the Civil War Trust's map of the morning of the first day. Note Wilson and Ector's starting position in the darker shade of red for the 10AM to 12Noon period. https://www.battlefields.org/learn/maps ... -dawn-noon With current starting positions in HPS Chickamauga the two brigades cannot reach their 10:00AM jump off points. Something to consider if playing the game in the future. If you are a big fan of the battle then the book I referenced is extremely helpful in scenario design.

Good day sir happy hunting!!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:54 pm 
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Please put your recommendation for the book here:
viewforum.php?f=71

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:45 pm 
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Now with the feedback section in place I recommend to put scenario specific feedback for the respective game there.

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