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 Post subject: Proposed Club wide Fall Tournament "Clash of Titans!"
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:00 pm
Posts: 550
Location: Mukilteo, Washington, USA - 25 miles north of Seattle
Gentlemen, Sirs! <salute>

We are asking for your input on our latest proposal for a Club wide Tournament coming this fall, Clash of Titans! This will be played on the Campaign Chickamauga format and will involve 3 separate battles within the campaign tree. We are asking for your comments which should include if you are interested in participating in the tournament and if not for what reason. If you would prefer to make only private comments then please do so and you can find our email addresses listed at the DoR in the Reports as CSA or USA Roster. Below is a brief outline of this "What if Campaign"


Quote:
CLASH OF TITANS

Jackson goes West

Stonewall Jackson survives his wounds at Chancellorsville and rejoins the ANV just in time to fight at Gettysburg. The battle is a stalemate and Lee unable to prod Meade into attacking him on ground of his own choosing withdraws to Virginia at the end of July.

Bragg having suffered the humiliation of being outmaneuvered by Rosecrans during the Tulahoma campaign and now having lost Chattanooga has tried Jefferson Davis's patience for the last time. With the Gettysburg Campaign having achieved no concrete results, Vicksburg and the Mississippi River now under total Union control and Bragg apparently unable to stop the advance of the Union Army of Tennessee Davis makes a fateful decision. He meets with Gen. Lee and over his vociferous protests he explains that he is promoting Stonewall Jackson to full general and sending him west to replace Bragg. However, Stonewall does not want to suffer from the same handicaps all of the commanders of the Army of Tennessee have operated under i.e.: constant interference from President Davis. Jackson agrees to the promotion and assignment only under the conditions that he chooses his corps commanders and commands without interference from Davis. Davis reluctantly agrees as long as Jackson keeps the president informed of his movements and plans. Jackson arrives at Lafayette on September 10th to take command and immediately reorganizes the Army of Tennessee as follows:

Army of Tennessee: General Stonewall Jackson

1st Corps - Lt. Gen. William Hardee (14,352)
Cheatham Division & Hindman Division

2nd Corps - Lt. Gen. D. H. Hill (9,653)
Breckenridge Division & Cleburne Division (commanded by Brig. Gen. Polk)

3rd Corps - Maj. Gen Patrick Cleburne (17,100)
Johnson Division, Stewart Division & Preston Division

Reserve Corps – Maj. Gen. Walker (8,667) - (the jury is still out on adding these two divisions to Hardee's corps, reduce Walker back to division command and Gist to brigade command)
Walker Division & Liddell Division

Reserve artillery - 450

Forrest's Corps - 6,557

Wheelers' Corps - 7,016

Total Strength 63,795

(Longstreet’s Corps may or may not be included later as reinforcements, but possibly at a greater strength considering the great slaughter at Gettysburg did not occur,)

Grant Takes Command

President Lincoln was greatly relieved when Lee withdrew to Virginia at the end of July along with the fall of Vicksburg. He was genuinely euphoric over Rosecrans’s capture of Chattanooga on September 4th. Then euphoria faded as spies in Richmond reported some disturbing news. There were strong rumors that Davis had met with Gen. Lee to discuss replacing Bragg. However, the spies could not determine if Davis wanted Lee to take over the hapless Army of Tennessee or one of his subordinates Gen. Jackson or Gen. Longstreet. Lincoln though impressed with Rosecrans’s results thus far considered the man no match for a Lee or Jackson. For once Lincoln was not going to let the situation outpace his ability to react. Without consulting his Secretary of War or Army commander Henry Halleck, Lincoln sends US Grant a telegram to take command of the Army of the Cumberland. Grant leaves Gen. McPherson in command in Mississippi and along with Gen. Sherman he boards the first steamer north. On September 9th Grant arrives in Chattanooga and takes command from the furious Gen. Rosecrans. Grant quickly replaces Crittenden and McCook with Sherman and Hooker, but before the army can even absorb the rapid changes in the command the campaign begins.

Jackson moves east towards Nashville and Grant moves to block:

On Sept. 12th, 1863 the Confederate AOT marched out of Lafayette heading northwest to Stevenson Tennessee. Joe Wheeler's Corps screened the army to the north and Bedford Forrest's Corps screened ahead of the army to the northwest securing the river crossings and hiding Jackson's exact movements from the northern cavalry. Jackson now puts his army to the test as he pushes them hard toward Shelbyville Tennessee in an attempt to gain a march on Grant. The next day Grant summarizes the information arriving from this cavalry reconnaissance and concludes that Jackson is headed for the Union supply base at Murfreesboro to capture badly needed supplies and then push on to Nashville. Grant knows this is Jackson's apparent goal on the surface, but he is certain Jackson's real purpose is to draw the Army of the Cumberland into a battle and defeat it in detail thus clearing Central and East Tennessee of Union forces and opening the door to an uncontested invasion of Kentucky. The two armies screened by cavalry now push hard towards site of the hard fought battle the year before.

Grant has the more direct route to Murfreesboro from Chattanooga and despite Jackson’s best efforts he wins the race to the city, but just barely. On the morning of Sept.18th Union cavalry ordered by Grant to race ahead to the city occupy the roads leading out of Murfreesboro as Wilder's Lightening Brigade and the lead elements of Gen. Sherman's 21st Corps begin to arrive. Forrest's Corps arrives from the south as the sun rises to scout and screen the arrival of Hardee's 1st Corps and D.H. Hill's 2nd Corps. Their infantry divisions are pushing hard up the Shelbyville Turnpike with Gen. Cleburne's 3rd Corps close behind. The stage is now set for the first Clash of Titans.

Army of the Cumberland - US Grant

14th Corps - Thomas - 24,273

20th Corps - Hooker - 14,874

21st Corps - Sherman - 15,018

Reserve Corps - 8,913 (the jury is still out on dismissing Granger and adding his divisions to Sherman's corps)

Cavalry Corps - 9,164

Unattached – 721

Total strength 72,963

(OO Howard's 11th Corps may or may not be included later as reinforcements, but possibly at a greater strength considering the great slaughter at Gettysburg did not occur)

There will be more details at a later date after we have had a chance to review your comments on the pros and cons of our idea!

Respectfully,

General Ernie Sands, USA
General Nick Kunz, CSA
Colonel Larry Mills, CSA
Co-Tournament Directors


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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Club wide Fall Tournament "Clash of Titans!"
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2002 7:09 pm
Posts: 46
Location: USA
I'd love to participate. I've been away for quite some time but I'm really enjoying the JTS titles. I wasn't a fan when they first came out but I'm a believer now.

Regards,

_________________
LTGEN E.L.Bird
I Corps,"King Cotton"
A.o.G.,C.S.A.


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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Club wide Fall Tournament "Clash of Titans!"
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 10:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:50 am
Posts: 46
Location: USA
I think this is a great idea and definitely want in. Don't really have any ideas, what you have proposed looks good to me.

Thanks for doing all the work and putting this on!

_________________
Maj Gen Gary Krenek
3rd Division (Texas Division) Commanding
I Corps
ANV


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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Club wide Fall Tournament "Clash of Titans!"
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:25 pm
Posts: 230
Location: avon indiana
excellent

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MG. Vannada
Headquarters:
Red Jackson's Division
Nathan Bedford Forest Cavalry Corp (3rd)
Army of The West


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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Club wide Fall Tournament "Clash of Titans!"
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 9:52 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:55 pm
Posts: 38
Gentlemen

<salute>

I am in. Hat's off to the team putting this all together!

_________________
Colonel Walter A. Dortch
-/2/V AotP


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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Club wide Fall Tournament "Clash of Titans!"
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 10:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:58 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Carolina Shores, NC
I would like to participate!

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Lt. Colonel Steve Sober, ACWGC
1st Division, XV Corps
Army of the Tennessee
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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Club wide Fall Tournament "Clash of Titans!"
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:14 pm
Posts: 15
Very exciting to see our club hosting a tournament again like this. Many thanks to the guys organizing this -- I'm all in!

_________________
Colonel Scott Eichelberger
2/2/V, AotP


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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Club wide Fall Tournament "Clash of Titans!"
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 81
Hi all,
I'm interested in,when you are ready,please inform me.

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Brig.Gen. Giovanni Boffi ANV


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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Club wide Fall Tournament "Clash of Titans!"
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 7:20 pm
Posts: 138
Location: USA
Gentlemen,

As I replied directly to General Kunz, I am in. A point about including Longstreet's corps. If this alternative history had unfolded, I can't imagine Lee acquiescing to losing both his corps COs. If Jackson goes west, then Longstreet stays east. You will need to find some dregs from elsewhere in the Confederacy to fill out the OOB, if that is your wish.

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MG Robert Frost
Army of Cumberland


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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Club wide Fall Tournament "Clash of Titans!"
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 1:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:52 am
Posts: 1061
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Robert Frost wrote:
Gentlemen,

As I replied directly to General Kunz, I am in. A point about including Longstreet's corps. If this alternative history had unfolded, I can't imagine Lee acquiescing to losing both his corps COs. If Jackson goes west, then Longstreet stays east. You will need to find some dregs from elsewhere in the Confederacy to fill out the OOB, if that is your wish.


Interesting alternate history. If Jackson goes west, does Lee then create the third corps. Hard to tell how it all plays out without knowing if any senior generals were casualties at Gettysburg.

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MG Mike Mihalik
Forrest's Cavalry Corps
AoWest/CSA


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 Post subject: Re: Proposed Club wide Fall Tournament "Clash of Titans!"
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 11:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:05 pm
Posts: 31
General Frost,

Excellent points, the historian in you is showing. Assuming Lee gives up Jackson, but not without a fight, I would have a difficult time justifying Longstreet reinforcing the Army of Tennessee. Lee would probably argue that losing Jackson was enough and not one soldier more of any rank. That being the case "Stonewall" would be hard pressed to find any other forces after the fall of Vicksburg.

Many historians state that the losses in the officer corps at Chancellorsville and Gettysburg crippled the ANV. Not having suffered the losses at Gettysburg would certainly place in Lee in a better position for the remainder of 1863, but how he would reorganize the ANV is anyone's guess.

For those looking for a greater historical justification for my 'what if' campaign consider this. It is my suggestion that Davis never took the set backs in the West seriously enough. Why? Like many southerners he began to believe that the war could be won in the East and Lee would one day destroy the AOP in a grand battle and the war would be over. However, what if Davis saw the light and realized someone in the west was going to have to win a battle decisively and effect a 'real' change in the momentum of the war? That being the case Davis (and this would have been totally out of character) might have thrown caution to the wind and gambled everything on one roll of the dice.

For those who are preparing to play this tournament in the fall this is the climate you will be operating in. This is an all or nothing campaign. Casualties though a factor will take a back seat to victory. The southern player must win no matter what. The alternative is the same campaign of slow retreat that Johnston fought all the way to the outskirts of Atlanta. The Union player cannot afford a major defeat that includes the loss of Nashville. Why? Where does the North then retreat to and reorganize for another fight? Memphis or all the way back to Cairo or somewhere in Kentucky. The geography of the region determines the nature of the outcome. In the final analysis it comes down to the same outcome for both sides "Nashville and all of Tennessee".

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Lt. Colonel L. G. Mills
Mahones Division ANV III
Confederate States of America
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