ACWGC Forums

American Civil War Game Club

* ACWGC    * Dpt. of Records (DoR)    *Club Recruiting Office     ACWGC Memorial

* CSA HQ    * VMI   * Join CSA    

* Union HQ   * UMA   * Join Union    

CSA Armies:   ANV   AoT

Union Armies:   AotT    AotC    AotP    AotS     Union Army Forums

Link Express

Club Forums:     NWC    CCC     Home Pages:     NWC    CCC    ACWGC
It is currently Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:06 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:28 am
Posts: 20
The only thing that bothers me about this rule is that isolation is only checked for at the start of a turn / movement phase. It leads to unintuitive situations in which a unit can be isolated despite being in contact with friendly units and being eligible for having isolation removed. For example this happens when friendly units make contact with an isolated unit as a result of winning melee against the surrounding enemy units. But the isolated unit still remains isolated throughout the enemy's turn. If the isolated unit is also routed, it can be overrun by an enemy unit of any size. This is an unintuitive implementation of the rule.

I would prefer if the game would check for isolation at the start AND end of a turn (or at the start and end of the movement and melee phases, respectively). This would prevent situations as described above. It would also be more intuitive. I and all the opponents I have played against keep trying to rescue isolated units, which often leads to the rescue units being ravaged or captured themselves, even though realistically the isolated units have no chance of being rescued due to how the rule is currently implemented.

Edit: I just read in the manual that the game checks isolation for the units of the player whose turn it is. Might be simple to just make that check for all units regardless of side.

_________________
JTS: Chickamauga, Gettysburg, Overland


Last edited by Logrus Pattern on Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:42 pm
Posts: 201
I don't like it when my units are isolated but I do like the Isolation Rules.

The Civil War was essentially linear warfare. It would have been exceedingly rare for a brigade, let alone a regiment, to go wandering off on their own independent operation. I think any units in a game that get themselves isolated at any stage deserve any penalties they receive. It does seem unrealistic that there is no penalty for firing while isolated as I'd think the firing ability of any surrounded unit would also suffer in reality. I do think it completely unrealistic when an enemy sets up a defensive position against the edge of the battle map so it is impossible for their force to be 'isolated' even though they are effectively surrounded on all sides as far as the battle map permits.

_________________
Major-General Swanson
Commander
4th Division
II Corps
Army of Northern Virginia


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:52 am
Posts: 1231
Location:
I never play with the isolation rule.

_________________
MG Mike Mihalik
Forrest's Cavalry Corps
AoWest/CSA


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:28 am
Posts: 20
Quaama wrote:
The Civil War was essentially linear warfare. It would have been exceedingly rare for a brigade, let alone a regiment, to go wandering off on their own independent operation. I think any units in a game that get themselves isolated at any stage deserve any penalties they receive. It does seem unrealistic that there is no penalty for firing while isolated as I'd think the firing ability of any surrounded unit would also suffer in reality. I do think it completely unrealistic when an enemy sets up a defensive position against the edge of the battle map so it is impossible for their force to be 'isolated' even though they are effectively surrounded on all sides as far as the battle map permits.


Again my objection is not to the isolation effects -though that might merit a discussion- but rather when the game checks for isolation for a side. Currently it's possible at the end of a player's turn for a unit to be in contact with friendly units (ie back in the 'line') but to still be isolated throughout the next enemy turn.

I would also not argue that the the game's rules are anything other than an abstraction as opposed to a 100% accurate representation of historical reality. Historical arguments can be sidestepped by the realization that the isolation rule is much the same across the Tiller games regardless of time period (eg the WW2 Campaign Series and the Cold War titles all have basically the same rule).

It's a simple rule that more or less gets the job done but falls apart at edge cases. Under the rule a brigade, division, corps or army can form an unbroken line but still be isolated by significantly weaker units, even if the enemy units all only have 1 strength. Conversely, any pocketed force can stave off isolation so long as it is pocketed with a supply wagon of at least 1 strength. But these situations are so unlikely as to be dismissed.

On the other hand I've already seen multiple times the situation I initially described despite being relatively new to the games. Even veteran players make the mistake of thinking they can rescue those units.

_________________
JTS: Chickamauga, Gettysburg, Overland


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:19 pm
Posts: 76
Sigh….. that “veteran” player he refers to is me :(. Personally I like
The isolation rule, as I have learned to pay particular attention to it and use it as much as I can.

_________________
Horse Artillery!!! "Lending dignity to what would otherwise just be a vulgar brawl"

B. Gen. W. Stewart
6/4/1 ANV


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 51 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group