American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)

Gentlemen.

A speculative Historical "What if" type of question for those with better Geographical and CW Historical knowledge than this poor Scribe.

IF the outcome of the Sharpsburg/Antietam Battle had been a Rout of Li'll Mac's Army . . . and assuming that the ANV would have been in fit enuff condition to avail of the opportunity . . . .

Where would Lee have attacked/manoeuvred to - next?

Rohersville? Boonsboro? Hagerstown? Mercersville? Shepardstown? Somewhere else?

I would imagine He would have moved closer to Washington . . . . but,I am not sure which would have been his most advantageous direction to take, to threaten the Capital and p'raps force Lincoln to the Negotiation Table . . . . .

Many Thanks Men,

Pat.

Patrick G.M.Carroll,
Lieutenant General.
Carroll's Corps,(II)
"Spartan Southrons"
Army of Georgia.
C.S.A.Cabinet Secretary

" When My Country takes it's rightful place, amongst the Nations of the World, then and only then, let My Epitaph be written. "

Lt. Gen. Carroll,

Honestly, that's a HUGE if! [:p]

The numbers at Antietam are even today largely speculative due to the heavy straggling which occurred in the Army of Northern Virginia in the days preceding the battle, but even in a best-case scenario Lee was outnumbered 8-5. I don't see any way Antietam could have ended as a decisive Confederate victory, much less a total rout where the Federal army was driven from the field. As it actually happened, Lee was extremely lucky he even managed to get his army across the Potomac in one piece.

-Brett Schulte
HPS Playtester

ACW Campaign Games Design Center: http://www.brettschulte.net/ACWCGDC/index.html

My Civil War Book Collection: http://www.brettschulte.net/ACWBooks/

ACW Gaming & Reading Blog: http://www.brettschulte.net/ACWBlog/

Brett!

Thanks for that.

Whilst I realise that it is a Hewage leap of Faith for the CSA and indeed the US side of the conflict to accept, I'm coming from the perspective of a BGN Mod. I have one in the pipeline . . . I wish to give a "Target" for the Rebs to attack . . . preferrably Historically based . . . . hence my question.

The Maryland Campaign was directly influenced by Lee's desire to pressurise Washington, but His Plan was compromised by the discovery of the "Cigars Order". I could base my Mod on that premise - i.e. that the Order was never found . . . but, would prefer to remain in the Historical context and give the CSA a Target to achieve in the BGN version of Antietam.

I have fought BGN Antietam numerous times without a victory. I find that no matter what strategy is taken by the CS, against a reasonably competent US Officer . . . it is the 8:5 Ratio of Forces AND the slightly -imho - unbalanced Objective points/ Victory conditions set in most of the BGN Antietam scenarios that 90% ensures a Union Victory.

My mod shifts the balance slightly, by reducing the Points available to the US from the usual objectives, setting a new Union objective - worth a huge point value and thus ensuring that the Union have to attack at certain points of the Battlefield . . . BUT, He must take the New Objective to ensure a Union Major Victory.

In a balanced situation . . . if the CSA do well and can take a certain objective point on the Battlefield . . . this should negate any Union gains and possibly ensure a CSA Victory.

I am unsure as to where that point should be and made this post with a view to determining Lee's best Option in this regard.

Whilst I respect and appreciate Your comments about the unlikelihood of the situation I first described . . . from a Mod Designers perspective . . . . Lee's ultimate (Your opinion????) objective would be best suited to my purposes.

Many Thanks Brett for Your Opinion so far . . . any further (modified) thoughts???? [:D]

Pat.

Patrick G.M.Carroll,
Lieutenant General.
Carroll's Corps,(II)
"Spartan Southrons"
Army of Georgia.
C.S.A.Cabinet Secretary

" When My Country takes it's rightful place, amongst the Nations of the World, then and only then, let My Epitaph be written. "

Pat,

I figured you might say that! [:D]

In that case, I agree that Lee would probably pursue the retreating Union forces, possibly trying to cut off and destroy any part that lagged behind, much like a pack of lions goes separates and destroys the weakest antelope in the herd.

-Brett Schulte
HPS Playtester

ACW Campaign Games Design Center: http://www.brettschulte.net/ACWCGDC/index.html

My Civil War Book Collection: http://www.brettschulte.net/ACWBooks/

ACW Gaming & Reading Blog: http://www.brettschulte.net/ACWBlog/

If I am correctly following what you said, you are looking for an objective on the standard BGN map to represent this route. For the Union army to be in any kind of problem the Rebs would have to seize control of the Boonesborough Pike probably all the way to the map edge. This would cut the AoP in half and off from their line of communications and retreat route. Considering McClellan held most of Porter's 5th Corps in reserve covering this road, the reality is that it was impossible. By the end of the battle the 5th Corps would probably be larger than all of Lee's effectives.

Strategically the best Lee could do if he defeated the AoP is force it to withdraw to the mountain passes. Then he could march north to Hagerstown and around the AoP.

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
III Corps, AoM (CSA)

General Carroll,

Maybe what you need to do is back up a bit historically, rather than forward. If you are assuming the cigar orders were never found, would Little Mac have been audacious enough to have crossed the mountains and attack the Rebels at Sharpsburg? I think not.

What was Lee's original plan? Wasn't it to move further north, draw the Federal army out, and attack on a field of his choosing? He achieved the first two, but Sharpsburg was simply the most centrally-located rally point -- he didn't have much choice about the field. As it was, the Rebel army was barely concentrated when the Federals began (finally) attacking.

If the cigar orders had not been discovered, what would McClellan's probably course of action had been? The historians in the club are in a better position to say than I am, but I'd guess he would never have made it across the mountains. Many of Lee's stragglers would have had time to catch up after the hard march, so he would have been stronger. (Yes, I've read that many refused to leave their home soil, saying they had signed up for a defensive war and not an offensive one. I expect that was just an excuse for many of the foot-weary rebels to lay down for a while. Given a few more days, my bet is that many of them would have caught up with the army.)

I also don't know the larger geography, but I can envision Lee sending his cavalry east across the passes to locate the Federals and lure them back, stationing one corps to dig in and hold the mountain passes. The other corps would move further north and around (or over, depending on the distance) the mountains, then swing back down and hit the Federals from the north (the Yankee right flank) -- at which point the remaining corps would go on the offensive and attack. This was a favorit tactic of Lee's -- he had already used it successfully on the Penninsula and at Second Bull Run, and would later use it successfully at Chancellorsville and again at the Wilderness.

Another 'what-if' scenario that would favor the Rebs (if that's what you're looking for) -- Lee holds the mountain passes with his entire army (well dug in, of course, with artillery situated to command the valley to the east) and McClellan must take the passes. Can anyone say 'Fredericksburg' [:D] ? Again, the action would mainly take place to the east of the mountain range.


Your humble servant,
Gen 'Dee Dubya' Mallory


David W. Mallory
ACW - President & Cabinet Member
CCC - Ensign, Georgia Volunteers, Southern Regional Department, Colonial American Army

Even assuming a decisive Confederate victory at Sharpsburg, any army marches on its stomachs and ammo wagons, and the original battle of Anteitam was a heavy drain on Confederate logistics. More was lost that men - huge amounts of ammunition were fired off by both sides, but the Rebs could not replentish their supply as quickly since their supply route was a bit more cicuitous than the Yanks who more or less had a straight line on good roads and railroads from their major depots to their field army. The Rebs supply line had to wind up the Shenandoah valley past Harper's Ferry, up the west bank of the Potomac and then cross the river via fords or their pontoon bridge. To advance the ANV northward, northeastward, or eastward would have severely strained that supply situation even further, as we would later see in 1863 during the Gettysburg campaign. By 1863 however, the ANV was a little better prepared for that deep campaign and had many more men and cavalry with which to hold that supply line. The best estimate I have seen put no more than 40,000 to 50,000 effectives in Lee's army by the time of South Mountain due to desertions, etc. Even assuming a hard fought victory I can't imagine that Lee would have had more than 30,000 to 40,000 men - most of them exhausted, hungry, barefoot, and low on ammunition - with which to follow up any victory. Lee certainly would have persued - that was his and Jackson's nature - just as they persued after Second Manassas, but unlike 2nd Manassas, they would have had two mountain ranges to cross, the afore mentioned supply problems, and fewer men. Even Lil' Mac could probably rally enough men to hold the weakened Rebs in the mountain passes, and recrossing the Potomac would be time consuming and allow the Yanks to get away back to Washington and regroup. So Lee's likely only option would be to move North or Northeast in an attempt to get around the AOP if Mac tried to hold the South Mountain or Frederick line. But then we are back to the issue of supplies, etc.

Regards,

Brig. Gen. Alan Lynn
2nd Div, II Corps, AoA
VMI Training Staff

God Bless <><