American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)
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HPS engine enhancements
http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10406		 Page 4 of 7
Author:  ALynn [ Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:36 am ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Examples of units that WONT surrender in one turn:

Gen. Buford and 600 Union cavalry.
450 Reb infantry.

So basically a unit will survive longer.

Bill Peters
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Conversely, can we get an option for infantry to form squares as long as we are going to continually have people use CW cavalry in the unhistoric role as shock troops / mounted tanks that surround and capture/destroy large infantry units in a single turn while never being fired upon regardless of the unhistoric result????

Regards,

Brig. Gen. Alan Lynn
2nd Div, II Corps, AoA
VMI Training Staff

God Bless <><
Author:  mihalik [ Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi, Bill,

I suspect a lot of folks involved in this club don't have the Napoleonic games. But I did geta couple of the Panzer Campaign games at the last Tillercon and liked the way they handled the whole isolation thing. Essentially, when a unit is defeated in melee but can't retreat, it loses some number of people as prisoners. If it is large enough, there are still people left in the hex. If this is what you are talking about, I heartily support it.

I also agree with General Lynn about the ahistoric effectivenes of mounted Civil War cavalry against infantry. Maybe allowing infantry to form square is the answer, although incidents of that happening seem to have been even rarer than mounted charges against infantry.
Mounted charges against dismounted cavalry, on the other hand, were more common and more successful, according to what I have read. This could have been due to the inferior range of cavalry weapons as well as the lack of a bayonet, and I'm sure the terrain and lack of training contributed to the ineffectiveness of mounted attacks. For better or worse, Civil War cavalry seemed to have functioned best for both sides when it was used as mounted infantry rather than the traditional mounted shock role, and this should be reflected in the game.

One other thing I forgot to mention that Col Boyd touched on was that I think that players ought to have the ability to voluntarily rout units when they get in a bind. Kind of a "Sauve qui peut" function command.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA
Author:  Rich Walker [ Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:08 am ]
Post subject: 
WOW,

I wish I could get my cav to fight that way.

Actually,I did have one success lately. But my opponent attacked with his cavalry into an area that I outnumbered him at least 4-1. I came up behind him and used the no forward retreat rule to elimnate a 600 man cav regiment. But I felt it was legitmate because the move would have been considered reckless had it been a historical situation.

BTW, in terms of being reckless, I'm more guilty then most. :-)

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ALynn</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Examples of units that WONT surrender in one turn:

Gen. Buford and 600 Union cavalry.
450 Reb infantry.

So basically a unit will survive longer.

Bill Peters
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Conversely, can we get an option for infantry to form squares as long as we are going to continually have people use CW cavalry in the unhistoric role as shock troops / mounted tanks that surround and capture/destroy large infantry units in a single turn while never being fired upon regardless of the unhistoric result????

Regards,

Brig. Gen. Alan Lynn
2nd Div, II Corps, AoA
VMI Training Staff

God Bless <><
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Capt. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"
Author:  dmallory [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:48 am ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mihalik</i>

One other thing I forgot to mention that Col Boyd touched on was that I think that players ought to have the ability to voluntarily rout units when they get in a bind. Kind of a "Sauve qui peut" function command.

MG Mike Mihalik
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

General Mihalik,

I don't speak French (Latin?), but I'm guessing your quote translates to "Every man for himself!"? [:D]


Your humble servant,
Gen 'Dee Dubya' Mallory

Image
David W. Mallory
ACW - General, 3/2/I/AotM (Club President & Cabinet Member)
CCC - Lieutenant, Georgia Volunteers, Southern Regional Department, Colonial American Army
Author:  mihalik [ Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi, General Mallory,

Actually a literal translation (going back to high school French) is "save who is able". But you got the gist of it. Goes back to the Napoleonics, I think, so Bill Peters might be able to shed some light on it.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA
Author:  Boyd [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
<i>Conversely, can we get an option for infantry to form squares as long as we are going to continually have people use CW cavalry in the unhistoric role as shock troops / mounted tanks that surround and capture/destroy large infantry units in a single turn while never being fired upon regardless of the unhistoric result????
Regards,

Brig. Gen. Alan Lynn
2nd Div, II Corps, AoA
VMI Training Staff

God Bless <><</i>


<font color="yellow">I</font id="yellow"><font color="yellow"> agree, and this problem could be alleviated if disrupted units didn't lose 1/2 their movement points allowing them to be easily surrounded. See my earlier post. Maybe they could just lose half their firing strength and not movement points.

Regards,

Col. Boyd Denner
"Alabama Brigade"
1/3/III
ANV
"God Bless the Alabamians" Gen. Robert E. Lee - The Wilderness 1864</font id="yellow">
Author:  dmallory [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
<br />

The A/I can still provide a good game if the scn is designed specifically for the A/I. I've done that with at least 5 scns with <font color="red"><b>my new title. Coming Soon</b></font id="red">!


Capt. Richard Walker
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Captain Walker,

I almost overlooked this! How soon? Which theater? Details, man, details [:D] !

Okay, I know you can't give out anything more. Just know I'm looking forward to it, whatever <i>it </i>is [8D] .


Your humble servant,
Gen 'Dee Dubya' Mallory

Image
David W. Mallory
ACW - General, 3/2/I/AotM (Club President & Cabinet Member)
CCC - Lieutenant, Georgia Volunteers, Southern Regional Department, Colonial American Army
Author:  Ernie Sands [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Captain Walker,

I almost overlooked this! How soon? Which theater? Details, man, details [:D] !

Okay, I know you can't give out anything more. Just know I'm looking forward to it, whatever <i>it </i>is [8D] .


Your humble servant,
Gen 'Dee Dubya' Mallory

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

It is playing at the BIJOU Theater.[:D]

<b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands
General, Commanding, Army of Ohio
Image
ACWGC Cabinet member
</b></font id="gold">
Author:  Rich Walker [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
One Hint;

The battles are south of Wash D.C. and north of St. Augustine.


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by dmallory</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
<br />

The A/I can still provide a good game if the scn is designed specifically for the A/I. I've done that with at least 5 scns with <font color="red"><b>my new title. Coming Soon</b></font id="red">!


Capt. Richard Walker
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Captain Walker,

I almost overlooked this! How soon? Which theater? Details, man, details [:D] !

Okay, I know you can't give out anything more. Just know I'm looking forward to it, whatever <i>it </i>is [8D] .


Your humble servant,
Gen 'Dee Dubya' Mallory

Image
David W. Mallory
ACW - General, 3/2/I/AotM (Club President & Cabinet Member)
CCC - Lieutenant, Georgia Volunteers, Southern Regional Department, Colonial American Army
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Capt. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"
Author:  ALynn [ Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
<br />One Hint;

The battles are south of Wash D.C. and north of St. Augustine.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The 1864 Florida campaign, right? Olustee is north of St. Augustine. [:D]

And you only gave us North-to-South boundaries - I think you owe us a Western boundary as well. [;)]

Regards,

Brig. Gen. Alan Lynn
2nd Div, II Corps, AoA
VMI Training Staff

God Bless <><
Author:  Rich Walker [ Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
OK OK

Memphis

And for good measure, an eastern boundry

Fort Sumter



<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ALynn</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
<br />One Hint;

The battles are south of Wash D.C. and north of St. Augustine.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The 1864 Florida campaign, right? Olustee is north of St. Augustine. [:D]

And you only gave us North-to-South boundaries - I think you owe us a Western boundary as well. [;)]

Regards,

Brig. Gen. Alan Lynn
2nd Div, II Corps, AoA
VMI Training Staff

God Bless <><
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Capt. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"
Author:  dmallory [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:23 am ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
<br />[quote]
Memphis

And for good measure, an eastern boundry

Fort Sumter

Capt. Richard Walker
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Well, that eliminates two of MY favorites -- the Red River campaign and the fight at Glorietta Pass, New Mexico [:)] !

I suppose the Red River campaign will have to wait for engine upgrades. Gunboats are handled pretty generically as it is -- varying the depth of rivers would be way to much to ask for right now [:D] .


Your humble servant,
Gen 'Dee Dubya' Mallory

Image
David W. Mallory
ACW - General, 3/2/I/AotM (Club President & Cabinet Member)
CCC - Lieutenant, Georgia Volunteers, Southern Regional Department, Colonial American Army
Author:  Bill Spitz [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Rich

My order of preference is as follows:
Yes to:
5) Allow arty to change facing direction and fire during the same turn.
3) Give the A/I the ability to move and fire in stacks.
1) A unit cannot fire on Unit A and then melee unit B in the same turn.
I give a NO to:
2) A leader must be present for a melee. (optional)
4) Daytime FA increase for units moving greater than 3/4 the MP allowance.(optional)

I would also highly recommend consideration be given to adding to the list at top priority, allowing infantry units to change formation at any point in a movement phase as long as they had the movement points remaining to do so. There are numerous instances where this tactic was used by both sides. It was quite common for a regiment to march towards the enemy in column, then parallel to the enemy line while in column, halt and do a right/left turn and immediately be in line facing the enemy and then immediately open fire. A case in point would be the 6th Wisconsin on the first day at Gettysburg. The marched forward from Seminary Ridge to McPherson's Ridge, then down the Chambersburg Pike, in column, halted, performed a left face and opened fire on the 55th North Carolina in the Railroad Cut, all in the space of the equivalent of one game turn. Hopefully this wouldn't be too difficult to accomplish as it is already incorporated in the Napoleanic Campaign games.

Thanks for your consideration of this request.


Col. Bill Spitz
3rd Division
V Corps
Army of the Potomac
Author:  Rich Walker [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
This is already allowed except in phase play.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

I would also highly recommend consideration be given to adding to the list at top priority, allowing infantry units to change formation at any point in a movement phase as long as they had the movement points remaining to do so. There are numerous instances where this tactic was used by both sides. It was quite common for a regiment to march towards the enemy in column, then parallel to the enemy line while in column, halt and do a right/left turn and immediately be in line facing the enemy and then immediately open fire. A case in point would be the 6th Wisconsin on the first day at Gettysburg. The marched forward from Seminary Ridge to McPherson's Ridge, then down the Chambersburg Pike, in column, halted, performed a left face and opened fire on the 55th North Carolina in the Railroad Cut, all in the space of the equivalent of one game turn. Hopefully this wouldn't be too difficult to accomplish as it is already incorporated in the Napoleanic Campaign games.

Thanks for your consideration of this request.


Col. Bill Spitz
3rd Division
V Corps
Army of the Potomac
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Capt. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"
Author:  ALynn [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:51 am ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
<br />This is already allowed except in phase play.

Capt. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

That's the problem - it needs to be allowed in phase play, too! [:)]

I've noticed that there are a lot of creeks and bridges in the Vicksburg maps, and those of us who play phased exclusively find it annoying to have to cross a creek in column and wait another 20 minutes before we can deploy into line - most likely being chewed to bits by a waiting enemy force, if we can even attempt to cross the creek at all. It just ain't historical. [xx(]

Regards,

Brig. Gen. Alan Lynn
2nd Div, II Corps, AoA
VMI Training Staff

God Bless <><
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