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 Post subject: Formalize Tourney/Scenario Design within the ACWGC
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:08 am 
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This is a side topic that has been discussed in the HPS Customer Base Thread. I'm pulling it out to try and get us down to something resembling a proposal for the Cabinet to consider.

My original thought I threw out over there was the creation of a position within each Army (Union and Reb) for a 4 - star equivalent spot (same as a Commandant or Army Commander, reports directly to the Chief of the Armies, for you org structure folks) for a technical spot. Something on the order of the Ordnance Department for the Union Army, to get it a historical flavor. This position would come with the same OBD as the equivalent positions, and the ability to recommend and award OBD commensurate within the current rules structure. There would be a leader, but also Staff as a "Collateral Duty" ala trainers at VMI/West Point, or the War Colleges, etc.

Larry Quick threw out the idea of the same group reporting into the Cabinet.

This would include tournament running, design, etc. Other Clubs have Tourney Coordinators, this would be a similar type endeavor.

Let's get the conversation rolling...

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General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
ACWGC Cabinet Member
http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/UnionHQ/


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:40 pm 
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Sign me up for the "Beta" Play Version. I would be proud to work with Larry as long as I don't have to sleep in the same damn room Larry's sleeping in when he's in his snoring mode.....

And I can hardly wait for this reply......

Colonel R.E.Daley
1st Corps of the ANV
3rd Calvary Divsion,
3rd Brigade
"We are the Midnight Riders"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:07 pm 
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I think that any kind of Scenario Design group should not be on army level or for that matter CSA/USA organization. I think this will dilute the potential effort to much. There aren't that many members both capable and willing to commit the amount of time required. I am not sure where in the Club organization it should be placed but it should be outside of the regular CSA/USA army organization and include members from both groups.

Also we need to define what their duties would be regarding Scenario Design. This will probably help clarify what kind of organization it should be.

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
III Corps, AoM (CSA)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:51 am 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">notso Posted - Apr 10 2007 : 8:24:44 PM ....Someone take me out back and shoot me … put me out of my misery … PLEASE!!! <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

We could only get so lucky...

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General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
ACWGC Cabinet Member
http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/UnionHQ/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:00 am 
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The piece that is most important to the membership at large is the tournaments. I envisioned these positions as Tourney Czars originally, thus the one per Army structure to run both in house and cross-Army tourneys.

Scenario Design is a big piece of this, and it would make sense to have a way to reward folks for those efforts by having someone closer to the efforts than the existing chains of command.

I would still say "we" don't want/need to regulate/control/own Scenario Design for Club purposes. We should have a way to "pay" those who perform that function on the Clubs behalf to enhance the game experience/atmosphere for the Club, ala FTW, HILL challenge, etc.

My corollary would be the War College. Anyone can write an article and submit it to the War College Staff. There, we have a set of "experts" who vet the article and it's contents, figures out where it fits within the War College, and rewards the submitter with OBD, medal, etc. The war College Commandant also has resources to encourage this activity from the membership. They don't have to be assigned to the College to do the work, the instituion is set up to hold the info and reward the efforts of the membership.

That is more what I see this role being. Someone interested in that aspect of the gaming in the Club that can advocate, review, coordinate tourneys and the work that goes into them (scenario design, webpages, ribbon/medal design, etc.) and reward those folks that make them run.

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General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
ACWGC Cabinet Member
http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/UnionHQ/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:41 pm 
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<font color="beige"><b>As a kid growing up my father built and flew model airplanes. It was a hobby he shared with me and we were both members of the local model club which met once a month at a local hall.
During the summer weekends there were club sponsored get togethers at a local field to fly planes. Most of these involved competitions of some type, some events were sanctioned by the national modelers organization (AMA) and some were just club competitions.

Very much like the ACWGC it was a group of folks that shared a commonality of interest which they pursued from a pretty wide variety of perspectives.
Camaraderie and friendly competition was the common thread that held the club together.

Since joining this club I've been in a few tournaments, one of which I sponsored and I have met more people, some have become very good friends, through playing in these tournaments, more members than I would likely have met just answering or issuing challenges.

I would like to see the ACWGC do more to encourage and support tournaments. Both Union vs. Confed and within the various army/corps/divisions. This would not have to encourage a "ladder" mentality, OBD points need only be offered for games played and participation/administration.

I do see it as a way to bring people together to have fun and a little friendly competition that may not otherwise never get the opportunity to do so.

I second Gen. Laub's proposal.[^]</b></font id="beige">

<center><font color="blue"><b>Maj.Gen. R.A.Weir</b></font id="blue">
<font color="yellow">THE CALVERT LINE</font id="yellow">
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<b>First--III--AoA CSA</b></center>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:15 am 
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Larry - (and others of the scenario design folks...)

I know absolutely very little on that topic (scenario design). But I think having this Bureau of Ordnance and Engineering (something to that effect, I'll have to search for the right historical context) position within each Army is a step in the right direction, and will give an incubator so that the right folks can start to figure it out, within Club structure and leadership. Each Army (CSA and USA) should have that group, but collaboration should, could and would happen between the two. They would be collaborating on tournaments (after all, it's most fun to whip a Reb![:D]) scenarios, and other special projects. This stuff is not "competitive information" ala the War Colleges. VMI and West Point have collaborated to an extent over the years, and I see that continuing and hopefully growing. If in time, folks feel a need to have a Chief of Ordnance for Tourneys, AND a Chief of Engineering for scenario design, then lets cross that bridge if/when it comes.

Hopefully, we can hear from a few of the folks that would like to see this type of idea move forward. Still an open slate, any other proposals are welcome and encouraged!

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General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
ACWGC Cabinet Member
http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/UnionHQ/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:53 pm 
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I think there are two separate topics here. I'll put my two cents in for both.

With regard to Tournament Oversight, Motivation, Recognition, or what ever you want to call it, I think the club would be well served to have someone (some group) which serves as a point of contact for any one who wants to run one to interface with. I think the biggest value of tournaments is that they usually result in people playing others they might not otherwise and the experience and the interactions are a benefit to everyone. Over time the group could develop a "catalog" of formats and have some views as to their pros and cons.

I think this position/group should also oversee the "reward" for those that run the Tournaments. I don't think the process needs to be too complex, but I would suggest that the "reward" be proportional to the number of games completed. The assumption being that the greater the number of games played, the greater the number of participants and their satisfaction.

While scenario design can be a part of a Tournament, it is not critical. I think the HACW Tournament format demonstrates this.

While I have a personal interest in the topic, I'm not sure how it would work as a club function. To start with, there are a multiplicity of goals that can motivate scenario design -- for example scenarios that are "balanced", scenarios that are "historical", battles not covered in the released games, "improved" versions of battles in the released games, "improved" unit graphics, "innovative" uses of the game engine in ways different from the norm, simple scenario designs - eg a new .scn file, more complex designs with multiple custom files, etc. (Note the items in quotes represent aspects I think there might be a range of opinions on). I think all of these things are useful, but I don't see the role of a club function. On the other hand I would not object to such a function and might participate.

There is one aspect of "scenario design" that might be a candidate for a club function. In the days when the Talonsoft games were popular, there was a gentlemen - I forget his name - who created a number of "blind scenarios" and when two people were interested in playing one of the scenarios he would send the briefing material to each and send them a .bte game file where the first turns for each side were done. So they could play the game, but could not view the actual scenario file to see what the situation was. Reviving that function as a club service might be worthwhile

Lt Gen Bob Breen
Commanding XIX Corps, AoS
"Defenders of the Right"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:58 pm 
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Gentlemen
If I made wade in(without drowning), scenario design/modification is a near & dear interest of mine. As I only own TalsonSoft titles all the Mods are eagerly downloaded. These have provided food for thought & additional mapps in which to stage nue scenarios. One thing I have found is that with Historical games one knows where one needs to be & when. Now where does this fit into to the Club, I would look for feedback from any who would play or review them.
Notso was kind enough to load one @ the Cartography Office "Shiloh/Ft Donaldson" & I have a game underway now.
My ? is would the Club want shorter games more historcial games or have they moved on to the HPS games?
All that said I have some skill with the TS editor, none with mapping(my hat is off to those who do), leader files are the most time consuming. And would be willing to set some time aside to work on some project within my skill limits.
Respectfully
Lt."Mr Herb" Nagel
4th Brigade/2nd Division
I Corp, Army of the Mississippi


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:15 pm 
I think the whole idea in this thread is great. I started tinkering with scenario design after the last Cadet Tourney that was run. Tourneys are great fun and do help you to meet and play other players.

The two ideas Quoted below I reckon have great potential.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">There is one aspect of "scenario design" that might be a candidate for a club function. In the days when the Talonsoft games were popular, there was a gentlemen - I forget his name - who created a number of "blind scenarios" and when two people were interested in playing one of the scenarios he would send the briefing material to each and send them a .bte game file where the first turns for each side were done. So they could play the game, but could not view the actual scenario file to see what the situation was. Reviving that function as a club service might be worthwhile

Lt Gen Bob Breen <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">



<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I do think that some sort of Tournament group should exist. Whether its under an army or just under the overall Cabinet is up to the guys in command. If they are furnishing scenarios for Tournies then some compensation is nice. I can put scenarios together for you guys if you need some but I wouldnt want to be on the staff. You can contact me about any HPS title you need a scenario for and I can even come up with Campaigns (one branch only) if you like.

Another thing I can do is allow both players to have a free-setup if they like. You merge two .scn files into one. The result is the guys get to place their forces where they like. Then I send the file to the First Player (I burn a game turn in doing so) already encrypted with his password and the same for the Second Player.

Col. Bill Peters, The Boise Rifles, II Corps Artillery, AoA<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I also remember a year or so ago floating an idea of creating a combo Design/Play tourney over at gamesquad but there was no interest.
A minimum of 3 participants would be needed. Once the amount of participants are known split them up into round robin groups of 3 per group. The Participants have say 6 weeks to design a scenario and then that group plays each others scenario (either 2 games or if both sides are played for each scenario 4 games played). This gives the fun of designing/playing the games and an inbuilt method of some extra playtesting of scenarios for balance. The more balanced ones could slowly be added to a permanent roster of suitable games for other tourney events. Also of note probably best to stick to designs of under 20 or 25 turns as tourneys best played (in my opinion) with smaller scenarios.

Just another idea to throw into the melting pot and one I would be prepared to volunteer in running if enough people thought it worthwhile doing.



Lt Col. Paul Sharp
2nd Div - XIX Corps
Army of The Shenandoah
"Defenders of the Right"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:56 am 
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I'm another of Larry's contacts when he has someone asking questions. I'm not an expert but I can usually point someone in the right direction and have a lot of information I've collected over the years. If the club is planning on doing more to support the people who make scenarios and run tournaments I'm all for it. Personally I'd like to spend some time with the Campaign Editor using it to give commanders some choice in their commands set up for a battle. Once I complete my current stint as AoS commander this is something I plan to work on.


Gen. Ken Miller

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Army of the Shenandoah


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:12 pm 
It would be great if also the add-on battles at the ACWCO will be included in the tournaments ...I'll be glad to work on something on the subject, providing ad-hoc scenarios based on my works for Battleground games.

Lt.Col. Luciano Bassotti
3/1/II/ANV


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:01 pm 
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Good feedback, all.

When we talk about the Club supporting these efforts, what types of support would folks expect/like to see???

In what way can we add value to your efforts, both from a tournament and scenario design aspect???

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General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
ACWGC Cabinet Member
http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/UnionHQ/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:16 pm 
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A consolidated place to download the scenarios.

A consistent method of documentation and scenarios grouped by game.

This is in addition to central help for scenarios and tournments.

<b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands
General, Commanding, Army of Ohio
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:15 am 
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Speaking of the ACWCO site and the scenario downloads, I have spot checked a number of the HPS links for scenarios and all come back as broken links. Have the HPS Corinth scenarios been removed? Are they now located somewhere else?

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
III Corps, AoM (CSA)


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