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 Post subject: Spiking mystery solved!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:39 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 7:32 pm
Posts: 300
Location: USA
My profuse apology. I re-read Matt's post and he clearly said that one does not have to CONTINUOUSLY OCCUPY spiked guns. That would seem to answer this whole magilla. I didn't read carefully enough. ONE DOES HAVE TO OCCUPY EVEN SPIKED GUNS TO RECEIVE THE POINTS. Is my face red. [:I] But I still think a simple list of the procedure, restrictions and results would be useful in the lack of anything in the manual...the pennance for my sins will be to search the posts and try to organize such a simple list.

Again I am sorry for wasting all the time...I can see now that it all comes down to me not reading carefully that one MUST OCCUPY even spiked cannon...though I have to tell you that that seems rather strange...perhaps the logic is that the enemy can recapture them, pull the twigs out of the touchholes and put them back into use before the battle ends. To avoid the use of two guns one has to guard it with 300 men...or what else? I still don't know? A leader? A wagon? A woefully disrupted unit? a routed unit? an uncrewed arty unit of my own? Are these unreasonable questions? Would a little documentation in the manual be an unreasonable waste of someone's time?

Thanks...I am done.[8]

Colonel Tom Ciampa
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2nd Bgde,1st Cav
XIV Corps, AoC
Games: TS/BG: AN, BR, CH, GB, SH - HPS: AT, CTH, GB, OZK, SH, VK


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2001 2:39 am
Posts: 285
Location: USA
No waste at all, I think everyone got some useful information from the discussions.[:D]

Lt. Gen. Ed Blackburn
I/I/VI/AoS
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"Forward Bucktails"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:19 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 1200
Location: USA
Now just looking forward to that War College article so the rest of us can be as educated. I'd say you are as close to this now as anyone![;)]

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General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
ACWGC Cabinet Member
http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/UnionHQ/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:32 am
Posts: 1642
Location: USA
To claim VP's for enemy guns spiked or unspiked you must occupy the hex with a unit. That unit can be any type regiment, battery or leader. I don't think a wagon will change the guns flag to CAPTURED. However, only a regiment may fire a CAPTURED gun. I have not tested to see of a battery unit can.

The key is if the guns are marked CAPTURED then someone is getting some VP for it, either full or half if spiked. Otherwise they are marked either SPIKED or UNCREWED. Since these VP values only become permanent at the end of game, be prepared to run around occupying enemy uncrewed guns on the last turn. I would like to see them change this to last side in hex owns the guns. There are still some combinations on flagging I haven't tested.

Unlike the Capturing side, if you retake your guns you can't fire them without recrewing them first.

Dirty gamey trick: Since killed guns show up on your Victory awards as permanent VP value, move a battery up adjacent to a CAPTURED gun, face the CAPTURED gun so it's rear is to your battery, and blow it permanently to hell.[:D]

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
III Corps, AoM (CSA)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:11 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2001 2:39 am
Posts: 285
Location: USA
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by KWhitehead</i>
<br />To claim VP's for enemy guns spiked or unspiked you must occupy the hex with a unit. That unit can be any type regiment, battery or leader. I don't think a wagon will change the guns flag to CAPTURED. However, only a regiment may fire a CAPTURED gun. I have not tested to see of a battery unit can.

The key is if the guns are marked CAPTURED then someone is getting some VP for it, either full or half if spiked. Otherwise they are marked either SPIKED or UNCREWED. Since these VP values only become permanent at the end of game, be prepared to run around occupying enemy uncrewed guns on the last turn. I would like to see them change this to last side in hex owns the guns. There are still some combinations on flagging I haven't tested.

Unlike the Capturing side, if you retake your guns you can't fire them without recrewing them first.

Dirty gamey trick: Since killed guns show up on your Victory awards as permanent VP value, move a battery up adjacent to a CAPTURED gun, face the CAPTURED gun so it's rear is to your battery, and blow it permanently to hell.[:D]

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
III Corps, AoM (CSA)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Just to clarify a battery will change the flag, I drove a limbered battery thru some spiked guns in my last Vicksburg turn and the "captured battery" prmpt opened up..

Lt. Gen. Ed Blackburn
I/I/VI/AoS
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:35 pm
Posts: 53
Location: USA
"Dirty gamey trick: Since killed guns show up on your Victory awards as permanent VP value, move a battery up adjacent to a CAPTURED gun, face the CAPTURED gun so it's rear is to your battery, and blow it permanently to hell."

I've taken to blowing them up almost all the time. It's just too much trouble to worry about captured guns in the rear areas, and especially if they are "blocking" a road. I mean, why bother keeping them on board? The only time it seems worth it to capture guns is when they will remain in the front lines and can be used against your enemy....probably a pretty rare thing. Maybe there should be an ongoing option to destroy occupied captured guns whenever you see fit.



Lt. Bill Cirillo
3rd Brigade, 1st Div.
XX Corps, AoC, USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:32 am
Posts: 1642
Location: USA
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Net Warrior</i>
<br />"Dirty gamey trick: Since killed guns show up on your Victory awards as permanent VP value, move a battery up adjacent to a CAPTURED gun, face the CAPTURED gun so it's rear is to your battery, and blow it permanently to hell."

I've taken to blowing them up almost all the time. It's just too much trouble to worry about captured guns in the rear areas, and especially if they are "blocking" a road. I mean, why bother keeping them on board? The only time it seems worth it to capture guns is when they will remain in the front lines and can be used against your enemy....probably a pretty rare thing. Maybe there should be an ongoing option to destroy occupied captured guns whenever you see fit.



Lt. Bill Cirillo
3rd Brigade, 1st Div.
XX Corps, AoC, USA
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

It's the smart thing to do but it is gamey too. The intent of the new rule was that guns overrun were seldom removed from the field and, other than spiked, not permanently disabled. Definitely neither side rolled up a battery and shot at them.

Fixes I would like to see include a way to permanently capture the gun (maybe like building trenches, sit long enough and the gun disappears and you get VP for it) and disable uncrewed guns as a target so you can't shoot them out of existence.

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
III Corps, AoM (CSA)


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