American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)

Hi, Rich,

The problem I see is that all the Yanks have to do is surround the guns and play Whack-a-Major. Actually, Whack-a-Colonel, since Major Hotchkiss's replacements are all colonels. That would generate 420 points over 30 turns, not to mention the strain it would put on the Southern economy trying to pay all those new colonels sitting up at Camp Douglas.[:D]

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA

" Sure, that's true of any leader death, wounding, or capture. But the way the post read, that's not what was being said.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mihalik

Hi, Rich,

I think in some Atlanta scenarios there is an artillery leader. If he was captured when the battery was taken, he would pop up on some subordinate unit. Every time you captured him he would have to pop up somewhere unless he ran out of subordinate units I guess. I checked the Resaca scenario and Conf Maj Hotchkiss does that.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"
"

Rich,
Essentially it is what is being said except that I had spiked the gun....I think I captured all the batteries under that commander....I was using the others against the AI...This one I chose to spike and abandon....I guess that is why it kept getting another new leader.....I would have thought being spiked would have precluded this....Unfortunatly, I don't have any saves....I finished the battle and the campaign ended...Now that I think about it, an arty commander popped up in the General vicinity when I had all of them occupied.....I believe he was also a Col. Anon....





BG Hank Smith
Army of Georgia
Smith's Division CO
Carroll's Corp

The way I read the original post about leaders popping up, it said that captured batteries were generating the leaders. Of course that can't happen. As for future leader loses, I suppose, just move them out of the way. Am I missing something?



Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"

Hi, Rich,

Yes. If you surround the guns with two small units, Col Anon isn't going but one hex.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA

I'll give you an example....Let's say you have Col Walker in charge of 4 batteries....He is killed and all 3 of his batteries are overrun and captured.....the enemy "turns 3 of the batteries" .....they spike and abandon 1 battery....What happened was that every time they abandoned the spiked battery, a new Col Anon. appeared in the hex....when he appeared, the enemy moved back in and captured him.....then once again abandoned the hex.....Col Anon reappeared in said hex once again....sequence repeated until the hex was kept occupied.......

BG Hank Smith
Army of Georgia
Smith's Division CO
Carroll's Corp

I'm not sure what can be done. It may be just a fluke that would not likely happen often. It's certainly gamey, and I wouldn't think much of a player that took advantage of that circumstance. This will only happen if all the units of that leaders organization is located in that single hex. If other units are located elsewhere, the Col. Anon will appear in a hex with another unit of that same organization.



<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jefferson H. Davis</i>
<br />I'll give you an example....Let's say you have Col Walker in charge of 4 batteries....He is killed and all 3 of his batteries are overrun and captured.....the enemy "turns 3 of the batteries" .....they spike and abandon 1 battery....What happened was that every time they abandoned the spiked battery, a new Col Anon. appeared in the hex....when he appeared, the enemy moved back in and captured him.....then once again abandoned the hex.....Col Anon reappeared in said hex once again....sequence repeated until the hex was kept occupied.......

BG Hank Smith
Army of Georgia
Smith's Division CO
Carroll's Corp

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"

A further complication to this "exceeding the stacking limits via melee glitch" (when additional units are stacked with 8 Arty units) is that none of the units in that stack are able to fire.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mihalik</i>
<br />Here is another interesting tidbit. If you have eight artillery units in a stack, and the enemy successfully melees the stack, it will stack on top of the captured artillery. If it then leaves the stack, the original owner cannot place a unit on the stack of uncrewed units, so he can't recrew the artillery. But if the capturing player leaves a unit on the stack, and the original owner can successfully melee it, he can get units on the stack and presumably recrew when his units undisrupt. Fascinating. I assume the same holds true when the artillery stack holds twenty guns, but I haven't tried that yet.

Well, I tried it with twenty uncrewed guns, and the original owner can enter the hex with infantry, unlike the 8-stack hex.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Bill Cirillo
3rd Brigade, 1st Div.
XX Corps, AoC, USA

I imagine these are extreme and unlikely to happen examples.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Net Warrior</i>
<br />A further complication to this "exceeding the stacking limits via melee glitch" (when additional units are stacked with 8 Arty units) is that none of the units in that stack are able to fire.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mihalik</i>
<br />Here is another interesting tidbit. If you have eight artillery units in a stack, and the enemy successfully melees the stack, it will stack on top of the captured artillery. If it then leaves the stack, the original owner cannot place a unit on the stack of uncrewed units, so he can't recrew the artillery. But if the capturing player leaves a unit on the stack, and the original owner can successfully melee it, he can get units on the stack and presumably recrew when his units undisrupt. Fascinating. I assume the same holds true when the artillery stack holds twenty guns, but I haven't tried that yet.

Well, I tried it with twenty uncrewed guns, and the original owner can enter the hex with infantry, unlike the 8-stack hex.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Bill Cirillo
3rd Brigade, 1st Div.
XX Corps, AoC, USA
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"

I guess it is rare but then that would also depend on your opponent and whether he is kind enough to stack 8 Arty for you to melee. One of my current opponnents has been so kind!

FYI, another complication is that if the meleer vacates the hex then the original owner is forever unable to enter or pass through the hex. OTOH, the meleer is able to enter and exit the hex as often as he likes. Whether the meleer's units are able to enter and exit the hex during the same turn remains to be playtested.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Walker</i>
<br />I imagine these are extreme and unlikely to happen examples.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Net Warrior</i>
<br />A further complication to this "exceeding the stacking limits via melee glitch" (when additional units are stacked with 8 Arty units) is that none of the units in that stack are able to fire.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mihalik</i>
<br />Here is another interesting tidbit. If you have eight artillery units in a stack, and the enemy successfully melees the stack, it will stack on top of the captured artillery. If it then leaves the stack, the original owner cannot place a unit on the stack of uncrewed units, so he can't recrew the artillery. But if the capturing player leaves a unit on the stack, and the original owner can successfully melee it, he can get units on the stack and presumably recrew when his units undisrupt. Fascinating. I assume the same holds true when the artillery stack holds twenty guns, but I haven't tried that yet.

Well, I tried it with twenty uncrewed guns, and the original owner can enter the hex with infantry, unlike the 8-stack hex.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Bill Cirillo
3rd Brigade, 1st Div.
XX Corps, AoC, USA
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Bill Cirillo
3rd Brigade, 1st Div.
XX Corps, AoC, USA

The reason for eight artillery sections to be stacked together was that in the old days units routing through artillery would disrupt the stack. By stacking eight units, nothing could rout through the stack. Since they have changed the rules so that nothing can disrupt unlimbered artillery short of direct melee or three days of constant fire assault to build max fatigue, this is no longer a desirable tactic. But I wonder what would happen if there were seven units in the hex and the enemy parked one of his own sections on top of them. Would both sides then be able to overstack in the hex? Stay tuned.

I set up a situation with seven reb sections and a yank battery. The rebs were able to overstack when they captured the Yank battery, but after that, only the Yanks could overstack. I don't know if it was because I meleed the rebs first or because they had more guns or more units. As Rich noted in this or another thread, the situation ought to be rare and probably won't affect play balance.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA