American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)

Just wanted to give a "job well done" to the designers for the weather effects. Playing my first Atlanta campaign and the gun smoke is having quite the effect along with the rainy damp weather in reducing visibility. Seems much more realistic though it is a pain in my rear having to keep moving my guns up trying to keep the Rebs in sight as I attack.

General Mark Nelms
6/3/IX/AoO
"Blackhawk Brigade"

I'm afraid I have to take the opposite view now that I have about five games of the Atlanta campaign completed. At first I thought the weather was a neat feature. But that was up at Rocky Face Ridge and the first scenario. Every scenario my opponent and I have had bad weather and I feel its screwing up the game. The campaign started in May and now we are into the July scenarios.

Some of the weather effects are too severe and I don't want to use them again. I had one instance where a veteran regiment "A" class composed of less than "50" men couldn't change facing in order to react to a large Union regiment that was outflanking it. That instance is only one of many that you are going to find after playing several scenario of all 'bad weather'. You just get tired of it all.

More realistic? No, I don't think so, not when every single battle is rain or mist.

I'm sure glad it is an option.


Bg. General Gilbert Collins
Army of Alabama
III/I/2nd Brigade

Well I'm in the first battle of my campaign and I'd have to agree with you if does stay raining the whole campaign.

General Mark Nelms
6/3/IX/AoO
"Blackhawk Brigade"

Where would the world be without Gilbert complaining, whining and pooh-poohing everything?

I can't wait to see his game system. I'm sure he'll design a great one.[:D]

MajGen Al 'Ambushed' Amos
3rd "Amos' Ambushers" Bde, Cavalry Division, XX Corps, AoC
The Union Forever! Huzzah!

I agree, that it may be a bit too severe at times. At the time, I felt that if one wanted clear weather, they would just fight using the non-weather scns. It also occured to me that if the day started rainy, it would stay damp the whole day. The problem isn't so much with stand alone battles, but with the campaign. If using the campaign weather option, every battle will be affected by bad weather. I'll try to work on that. Not every battle during a campaign should be rainy and damp with mud limiting movement. So point well taken.

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"

Sorry to hear that Rich. I think the weather effects are well modeled as the visibility has varied quite a bit in our first battle. However if this means that it will stay bad weather for the whole campaign then we'll probably just end it as I think it will be too severe for that entire period. I appreciate you looking into correcting it though.

General Mark Nelms
6/3/IX/AoO
"Blackhawk Brigade"

Sorry you think "I'm a complainer Al". If you even knew me you might think better of me, and your comment might be more worthy of you.



Bg. General Gilbert Collins
Army of Alabama
III/I/2nd Brigade

Weather is a good idea, but needs a little more water under the bridge of experience still. I just played a turn from an Atlanta Campaign scenario, using weather, and in this particular turn the weather was listed as "Light Rain / Light Gun Smoke." A unit I was moving was required to have 10 movement points to move a single hex in the woods over a stream, although no elevation change or other factor was involved. I thought that a little steep. I wonder what the same movement would have cost had there been medium rain or smoke, or heavy rain or smoke? . . . Even good ideas don't always emerge fully tweaked. That's why we have patches and discussions.

Sincerely,
Brig Gen Dwight McBride
2nd Brigade/2nd Division
I Corps/AOP/USA

I think I can make it so there is a 50% chance for clear weather to pop up and I can lessen the MP restriction.

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"

Is there any way you can program it so that you have historical weather like we do in the Panzer Campaigns? I think I'd rather have that option if you could do it.

General Mark Nelms
6/3/IX/AoO
"Blackhawk Brigade"

I'm making adjustments, but I thought I would point out the following about Campaign Chickamauga.

There are two weather pdt files. One for Spring/Summer/Fall and one for Winter. The Winter pdt is more severe, there is actually alot of clear times in the Spring... pdt.

I will try to get patch release for Chickamauga this week.

I will need to check Atlanta also, but as there has already been a recent patch, it will probably be a month before another can be released.

Rich


Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"

Thanks for all your work Rich.

General Mark Nelms
6/3/IX/AoO
"Blackhawk Brigade"

I have never used the weather effects and probably won't until they evolve a bit more. One problem I see is that the victory conditions are the same for both weather and clear. I think the attacker would have a tougher time meeting the victory conditions with limited movement. Which is the balanced scenario? I guess you could say the same thing about any of the options though. I do applaud Rich for trying. The gunsmoke idea is a good one, but ideally ought to bear a relation to how much shooting is going on. I think SSI managed this about twenty years ago in Turning Point: Gettysburg. But that was a different system. Weather is difficult to model. My experience as a backpacker with light rain was that it affected sight but not movement. But I'm sure after a few regiments and batteries marched over the damp ground it became a quagmire. How do you model that? The same or worse ought to apply to dirt roads though. Anyway, hope one day we get it all sorted out.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA

One thing to realize about the weather effects, is that they really are "working" well now, at least in the programming sense. What's needed now are levels of fine tuning, the designers getting a better sense of how to use them, and what settings work well. I think this is the key feedback we can give them.


(Ok, I will say, the "gunsmoke" aspect does need more work from the programming side. I doubt it could be done "right" with only the wing of the battle that's firing getting reduced vis, but I'd think that one possible evolution would be for the computer to keep track of the total number of men/guns that have fired, and progressively adjust vis to reflect that)

Major General Gary McClellan
1st Division, XXIII Corps
AoO,USA

The "weather" feature can be modified on a turn by turn basis and the weather description can be altered too.

Of course further refinement to the system would be possible, in particular, <b>localized</b> "weather" to represent:

1./ The accumulation of battlefield smoke from blackpowder weaponry and burning buildings/woods (what we really need here is smoke counters that gradually accumulate when units fire - the 1996 game <i>Age of Rifles </i>had such a system and I believe the Modern and Squad Battles series must have "smoke" counters too, so this is certainly do-able)

2./ Patches of early morning mist, which might persist in low-lying marshy areas. Also low cloud on hill tops, etc.

If we can get a really sophisticated weather system, it might even be possible to include wind - both speed and direction - and, for larger maps, the possibility of it raining on only part of the battlefield.


Brig. Gen. Rich White
3 Brig. Phantom Cav Div
III Corps ANV