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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:51 am 
i'm just curious, but how are supply wagons supposed to keep up with their respective commands? a division moving via a secondary road for several hours would really out run its supply wagons.

Lt Col Ken Turner
"Dixie" Battalion
"Guns of the Alamo" III Corps Artillery
Army of Alabama


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:22 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2001 12:13 am
Posts: 335
Location: USA
I would imagine that's something of the point. Both at the operational and tactical level, the guys on foot are always able to move faster than the heavily laden wagons.

So, if you want to send your lads on a long, flanking march, sure they can get there, but they're liable to have ammo problems when they do.

Major General Gary McClellan
1st Division, XXIII Corps
AoO,USA


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:28 am 
Don't you think they're set to be too slow though? Jackson made marches that frankly were amazing in terms of distance covered and his wagons weren't two days behind him. It didn't take Lee 22 weeks to invade Pennsylvania because his wagons were so slow.

I appreciate what the movement rate is supposed to reflect and overall I like it; I just feel it's set a bit too low. The result instead of creating more realistic game play, for me, is an unnecessary aggravation. Just my opinion of course. :-)

Maj.Gen. Mike Smith
Army of Georgia
Commanding

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:00 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2001 12:13 am
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Let's see here, a quick dig finds an article saying that a horse and wagon would be good typically in a city for about 20 miles a day

http://books.google.com/books?id=Vv--Pf ... #PPA268,M1

Now, that is in the city, where congestion might be an issue, but on the other hand, the roads would typically be better.

So, 1 Mile is about 17 hexes (a bit less actually), so ideally, a day's work should be around 340 hex. Now, assuming it works 14 hours a day, that's around 8 hexes per turn. That's in city conditions. Currently, a wagon can go 12 hexes on a pike, or 6 on a secondary road. So, the question is, would a secondary road qualify as better conditions than the city?

To me, that fast analysis shows me that the rate of advance of a supply wagon is in the ballpark (or even a hair high on pikes).

*shrugs*

Major General Gary McClellan
1st Division, XXIII Corps
AoO,USA


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:16 am 
How fast can a laden wagon move along turnpikes, dirt roads, trails and across open country? We already have many differentials to include forest and rough hexes. Are they accurate? [?][?][?] It's a judgment call and necessarily a crude approximation.

Of course, wagon movement slows down considerably when they leave turnpikes! And consider that so far, we have not had to deal with weather, such as with Burnside's "Mud March." Dirt roads quickly turn to mud with a downpour, which I suspect would make wagon movement the same as rough terrain. Should <u>a dry dirt road</u> only take off two movement factors, instead of halving MFs? In any case, an army stays on hardened roads as long as it can because wheeled vehicles keep up better.

It is long evident and widely understood that so many offensives and retreats throughout history are/were conducted along various kinds of roads because their supply vehicles could move multiples of distances as opposed to rates going cross country. I remember that Patton was looking at the routes that King Henry moved his army on (Middle Ages) for clues of best paths for his mechanized units.

Are the game programmers lazy, or just keeping it simple for us dumbasses? [}:)][;)] I suspect a bit of both. [:D]

You realize, of course, that you're asking for more complexity each time that you ask for more accuracy? [:D] Maybe units in Stonewall Jackson's command should get a movement bonus. [:p]
I can live with more complexity, especially as options. [8D]
<font color="orange">EDIT: Thanks for the research Gary McCl. Actually I think that wagon MFs are 10 while infantry is 12. But I may have missed an update.</font id="orange">[:)]
BG Ross McDaniel
2nd Bde, 3rd Div, III Corps, AoG, CSA

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:29 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:44 pm
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Current rates feel about right...

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General Jeff Laub
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:31 am 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 1:01 pm
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Supply wagons in Gettysburg and Atlanta move differently.

Are the roads that much better in Atlanta?

Lt Col Thompson
4/3/VIII
AoS


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