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 Post subject: Routed unit misery.
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:47 am 
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Location: United Kingdom
I've just thrown in the towel in a number of games I had going with a few different opponents. I was getting my backside kicked in all of them ( as usual ) but I've finally come to the end of my patience regarding what i think is the unfairness of the HPS game engine.

I would like to ask about a situation I noticed for the first time? On a large HPS Gettysburg campaign game, my rebel opponent has routed a load of my units but I found I was unable to move them to safety because of a routed Reb Cavalry Regiment in my rear. Surely routed enemy units don't stop friendly routed movements? What's more, the routed Cavalry Regiment seemed to have skirmishers deployed, affecting my movements even more?! Outrageous!

Capt. Jim Wilkes.
2nd Brigade, Cavalry Division, XX Corps.
AoC. U.S.A.


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:13 am
Posts: 387
Location: USA
And everyone always say that it was the Rebels at ran away....
This prove the point that it was really the Yanks running and not Johnny Reb....lol

Willie Tisdale
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"The Gray Fox"
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Chief of Armies - CSA
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 6:58 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 1200
Location: USA
Capt Wilkes -

If you did have routed Reb skirmishers, it may be something to send to HPS Support so they can look at the file.

Don't give up! Find some good Rebs that are at a close skill level and you can still enjoy the games! Or, fight a few "friendlies" and get some tips on what you can do different.

Soldier on, sir!

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General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
ACWGC Cabinet Member
http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/UnionHQ/


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:33 am 
This is one of the reasons I cannot bring myself to play another HPS game. As often as not, enemy units that have been routed are even more dangerous than they were unrouted. At least when unrouted their behavior can be predicted. Routed units move frantically about like some kind of indefatigable mob on speed.

And god help you if they route behind your own lines. Bringing up reinforcements or falling back in a planned fashion will not be possible.

As far as I'm concerned, routed units should simply disappear from the board. Or, the marker should represent the routed unit's commander. This commander can make his way back in a controlled fashion to a predetermined location and the routed members of his command can gradually gather around him to reconstitute the unit.

Routed units that cannot trace an unbroken line of communications back to its own higher command (after a couple of turns or so), should be considered cutoff and captured.


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:42 am 
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I agree with General Laub that routed units shouldn't have skirmish capability, and it could very well be a bug. Personally, I would have preferred a mounted cavalry skirmish option where the skirmishers would have to be deployed and would cost the extra movement point, just like infantry. The practical effect would be that they would travel the same speed as infantry while scouting along a road, but would have the capability of moving full rate while not scouting. More realistic, IMHO, and gives the player more choices.

I have seen where an infantry unit is meleed and disrupted, and yet its skirmishers are still deployed! I originally thought that once a unit entered the ZOC (adjacent frontal hexside) of a unit with skirmishers deployed, the program would automatically recall the skirmishers, and the unit would then be at full strength. That is how it worked historically; when an enemy line of battle approached, the skirmishers would usually rejoin their parent formation and the fight would be on. That doesn't appear how it works in the game though. Maybe I ought to post it on recommended changes.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:04 am 
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Capt.Jim Wilkes,

hang on there! It is always a bit tuff in the start, but for every new game you get experience. We also have some very experienced gamers in our ranks. They are very helpful if you ask them about the games. And as Jef say try to find a gamer on your own level. It is not all Rebels who is "ubermensch" that I can testify [:D]

Major
Ola Berli
XX/1/5
"Artillery of Death"
AOC
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THIS IS THE END REBEL!


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:05 pm 
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I've got to come to the defense of my fellow officer, Jim Wilkes, on this one. There is no way that a routed enemy unit found behind friendly lines should be able to prohibit movement by anyone, including other routed units. They should exert no ZOC. Futhermore, they should simply be displaced if moved over or through and lose all capacity the next turn for a RALLY as a result.

And Major General Mihalik has it right, too. Upon engaging in combat, skirmishers should automatically be re-absorbed into the parent unit. The concept of a routed unit running around the map with skirmishers deployed is ridiculous!

Col. Jos. C. Meyer,
4th Brg'd, Cav. Div., 14th Corps, Army of the Cumberland


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:01 am 
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I think you are just seeing a side affect of another rule people wanted and got, mounted cavalry have an inherent skirmish zone. They don't ever deploy them so there is no mechanism in the game to retrieve them. Infantry routes act properly since a routed unit automatically goes to column when it routes and has no skirmishers as a result.

As for units routing in odd directions this reflects more the state of the games AI. The AI gets confused when lines of battle and supply sources aren't positioned right relative to the unit. It just can't figure out where to run so they run randomly.

Without knowing specifics of the situation I can't say how to minimize these problems. Generally though, continuous fronts and reserves will make the enemy pay for having routes. Also, choosing different game options can change how much of a problem it is.

Also, I recommend if you aren't familiar with the game tactics that you play single scenarios. Especially some Maneuver games so you can get some feedback. Campaigns can be very fustrating if you lose a key battle early than have to play out a long series of scenarios where you don't have a chance due to the early loss.

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
1/1/III AoM (CSA)


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