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 Post subject: Can you destroy abatis?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 3:26 pm
Posts: 131
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Can you remove these obstructions from the map?

After you spike a gun, can you destroy it? If not, why not?

BG Ken 'Muddy' Jones
1/1/XXIII Army of Ohio
USA


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:52 pm 
Alas, the answer to both is no. (You can destroy a gun by shooting at it with other guns, but you waste ammo that way.)

I would love to be able to build or destroy abatis.

Regards,

Lt. Gen. Alan Lynn
CSA Chief of Staff
3rd Bgde, 3rd Cav Div, II Corps, AoA

God Bless <><


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:23 pm 
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Location: Somewhere between D.C. and the battlefield
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Sir Muddy</i>
After you spike a gun, can you destroy it? If not, why not?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

You can destroy a gun by firing your own guns at it. It works with captured guns. I have never spiked a gun, so I don't know if they can still be destroyed afterwards, but I don't see why not?

Gen. Walter, USA
<i>The Blue Blitz</i>
3/2/VIII AoS
Image
West Point Class of '01


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:03 am 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by D.S. Walter</i>
<br />

You can destroy a gun by firing your own guns at it. It works with captured guns. I have never spiked a gun, so I don't know if they can still be destroyed afterwards, but I don't see why not?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Actually, you can destroy a captured spiked gun by fire, but you only get half points. Hopefully at some point a player will be able to destroy guns in his possession. I think a double spike ought to do it, so that it would take forty minutes to destroy a gun versus twenty to spike it. Probably should change the point dynamic so that any gun destroyed by fire or double spiking would give the opposing player half points, as would captured spiked guns, while captured operable guns would be worth full value. That might require a reevaluation of victory conditions for every scenario though.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:25 am 
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Location: USA
They really need to change the handling of gun kills and VP awarding. And, of course fix the error of returning all captured guns to the original owner in campaigns.

I would favor them changing spiking to awarding the half VP immediately to the attacker and removing the gun from the map. While not historical is will solve the victory point award problem created by the capture rules. You shouldn't have to roll up a battery and shoot at a gun to gain the VP for taking it. The game system still reward you for capturing a gun then putting a battery behind it and shooting it out of existence to get the full VP.

A better solution would be getting full VP for capturing a gun (shouldn't have to occupy just be the last one to occupy) and half VP for both spiked guns and gun kills by counter battery fire. This would probably be much more historic and game wise work better. Most gun kills were wheel and carriage damage in the Civil War. The guns were usually dragged off for repair later. Not left on the field for capture. Spiked gun VP award is a little harder to justify without the player holding the ground at the end of the battle but it makes awarding the VP work. If you take a gun and spike it you have damaged the enemy even if you don't hold it and should get some award for it whether you hold the field or not without having to result to gamey tactics of shooting at it to get the gun kills.

Of course an even better solution to the spiked VP is having a second level of spiking. The first being disalbing the gun but having to maintain capture status to get VP and the second being a permanent destruction (or removal of gun to the rear) which would work like entrenching does now.

Regardless the Southern players shouldn't have to waste artillery ammo to get his VP.

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
1/1/III AoM (CSA)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:08 am 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br />Yes, you can destroy Abbatis.

Just pour on some oil and light it up! [:D][:p]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Destroy abatis? Bill, you can't even spell abatis!
And your monitor must look like hell.[:D]

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:32 am
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Location: USA
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mihalik</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br />Yes, you can destroy Abbatis.

Just pour on some oil and light it up! [:D][:p]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Destroy abatis? Bill, you can't even spell abatis!
And your monitor must look like hell.[:D]

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Actually he gets rid of them by using WiteOut.[:D]

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
1/1/III AoM (CSA)


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