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 Post subject: Full Melee Defensive Fire in new system
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 1200
Location: USA
With the new Melee phase option, it must override the Full Melee Defensive fire option???

In Antietam, I just had 14 guns well behind my lines get nailed from a frontal assault by 4XX mounted cavalry who had slipped through an area, and my defensive fire only hit 20 troopers, but since the melee phase is a separate phase, they don't fire before melee???

Seems out of whack???

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General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
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http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/UnionHQ/


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:16 pm 
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Location: USA
If what you've described is true, something <i>does</i> seem completely out of whack! One would expect in that situation that the assaulting cavalry not only would receive around 100+ casualties but that the charge could very well have been disrupted!

Col. Jos. C. Meyer,
4th "California" Brigade,
"Cumberland Sabres" Cavalry Division,
14th Corps, Army of the Cumberland


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:52 am
Posts: 862
Location: USA
Def fire does takes place, but it's not a 100% sure thing, as always.

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 1:45 pm
Posts: 164
Location: USA
I would bet that in the combat you described only one section of guns fired which is to me one of the main problems with defensive fire against adjacent enemy units. The attacker has the option of combining his units to fire or melee and expcet only limited defensive fire. Simply put, attackers should be reluctant to move adjacent to strong defensive positions and if they do their assaults should suffer heavy losses even if successful.

Lt General Jon Thayer
III Corps
Army of Northern Virginia

jonathanthayer@bellsouth.net


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 8:16 am
Posts: 328
Location: Canada
This neutered defensive fire issue keeps comming up...

What is the logic behind it? I mean in real life would not all units that could fire actually fire, especially the arty?

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General John Corbin
Commander in Chief
Army of The Shenandoah
USA</center>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:32 am
Posts: 1658
Location: USA
Do like I do and avoid Turn based play like the plague.[:D]

The AI just isn't good enough to handle defensive fire using random allogrithms and opportunity fire as the triggering event. It doesn't take into account threat or how long the attacking unit has been in LOS.

The HPS game system already favors the attacker. When using the Turn system instead of Phased the game heavily favors the attacker. The separate melee phase they added helped but didn't solve the basic problem. Which is a Turn based system is more appropriate simulation of modern warfare than the slow paced fighting of the Civil War. Although I had thought that all defenders got to fire at full fire strength in the new Melee phase. Apparently that isn't true.

If you are going to play Turn based, don't expect defense to work. You have to focus your tactics on the offense. But in my opinion Turn based games are like playing Chess, it is suppose to look like fighting but it isn't, its just a game.

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
1/1/III AoM (CSA)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:35 pm 
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With the example given, I am sympathetic but lets look at it another way. What if the artillery had dropped 150 troopers during defensive fire and then another 150 during melee defensive fire. That wouldn't sound fair either since the defense got two shots at it and the offense probably none - and then they have to stand there and be totally eliminated during the Union offensive play.

If you make these games where defensive fire is a killer and neither side can afford to attack, then the Rebs might as well say "I'm sorry" and send their delegates back to the U.S. Congress. Agreed that it varies with the scenario, but in general there is a reason that Rebs tend to melee more than Yanks do - out of necessity.

If I remember your club record even remotely correctly, you're not having much trouble with any options that you play with, so I doubt that you feel slighted over all. You do need to get your eyes and ears checked though because there's been a couple of Union officers stealing liquor bottles out of your private stash the whole time that we've been talking.

Lt Gen Ned Simms
1/1/VIII/AoS/USA
Blood 'n Guts hisself, a land lovin' pirate. Show me some arty tubes and we'll charge 'em.
VMI Class of '00


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 5:51 pm
Posts: 279
Location: USA
Jeff, I thought it was a fair fight.....My elite calvary was just far superior to your cannon fire......20 men plain just did not DUCK...

Lt. Gen. John Dragan III/AoA
" the Yankee Killer "


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:04 am 
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As I understand the the Full Defensive Fire Option means that IF A UNIT FIRES IT FIRES WITH FULL EFFECT. So your unit has to first get the opportunity to fire. It is still subject to the random chance of opportunity fire.

Gen. Ken Miller
1/2/VI
AoS
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 1200
Location: USA
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Jeff, I thought it was a fair fight.....My elite calvary was just far superior to your cannon fire......20 men plain just did not DUCK...

Lt. Gen. John Dragan III/AoA
" the Yankee Killer "
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

A good chuckle when I read that one!

And let me be on record, I have and would try the same thing in my own tactics, so in no way am I complaining about that or casting any dispersions on General Dragan. Top notch opponent and as decent as a Reb can be...[;)]

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General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
ACWGC Cabinet Member
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