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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:00 pm 
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View here: http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/products/SB/SCW/SCW.html




[:D]










....sorry. cruel joke I know.[:o)][B)] But I'm starting to get impatient. I need an ACW fix. [:)]

Developers? Can anyone give us a hint?? Don't you need us to buy your games for Christmas?[:D]

Lt. Gen. Boyd Denner
II Corps Commanding
ANV
"God Bless the Alabamians" Gen. Robert E. Lee - Wilderness 1864


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:17 pm 
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You need to be tied to the whipping post, and given 20 lashes with a wet noodle. When I saw the title I was thinking that I haven't got Antietam yet and they are coming out with a new title. Such Cruelty, if you weren't a Southern, I'd think you where a Yankee play such a poor joke [:D]. But I'm getting inpatients for a new title from HPS.

Respectfully,
Lt. Gen. Gery Bastiani
III Corp
AotM CSA



"If there is a shell or bullet over there destined for us, it will find us" - General James Longstreet


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:20 pm 
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<font color="yellow">What? no sense of humor Yank?? ...and pro-censorship sounds like too. How about if we just delete your post?

By the way, the title is factually accurate. It is a new Civil War Game by HPS.</font id="yellow">

Sincerely,
Lt Gen Boyd Denner
II Corps/ANV/CSA



<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by DwightMcBride</i>
<br />Moderators . . . Can we delete this thread? . . . or at least get the misleading title changed? Not funny.

Sincerely,
Lt Gen Dwight McBride
V Corps/AOP/USA
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">



Lt. Gen. Boyd Denner
II Corps Commanding
ANV
"God Bless the Alabamians" Gen. Robert E. Lee - Wilderness 1864


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:49 pm 
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"least get the misleading title changed? Not funny."

Very funny stuff! [:D]

Quite accurate, too. CIVIL WAR.

Good job, Boyd for catching everyone. You must be a scream on the first of April. [:o)]



MajGen Al 'Ambushed' Amos

The Union Forever! Huzzah!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:41 pm 
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Spanish civil war? <font color="red"><font size="6"><b>SPANISH CIVIL WAR?</b></font id="size6"></font id="red"> whose idea was <i>THAT</i>?

Can anyone on this forum actually name a battle from the Spanish civil war? or name 1 General?...<i>other than Franco</i>.

Sorry, don't think I'll be getting this one any time soon. [|)]

Colonel Jim Wilkes.
2nd Brigade, Cavalry Division, XX Corps.
AoC. U.S.A.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:06 am 
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<i>"Can anyone on this forum actually name a battle from the Spanish civil war? or name 1 General?...other than Franco."</i>

Heck, who can name the two sides in the Spanish Civil War?

PS. Joke caught me, good one Boyd.



Maj Gen Gary Krenek
3rd Division Commanding
III Corps
ANV

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:52 am 
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If we cover nothing but the "popular" wars we do history a disservice. You can count on HPS covering a wide variety of topics - possibly all of armed conflict from recorded history, eventually.

With that said, more ACW is on the way...

LGen. Hamilton
II Corps
ANV, CSA


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:26 am 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rich Hamilton</i>
<br />If we cover nothing but the "popular" wars we do history a disservice. You can count on HPS covering a wide variety of topics - possibly all of armed conflict from recorded history, eventually.

With that said, more ACW is on the way...

LGen. Hamilton
II Corps
ANV, CSA

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking HPS in any way over this release. I do hope that sales meet and exceed expectations and that this title proves as popular as the rest of the series. I'm sure it's researched and designed with as much attention to detail as all the other HPS products. I don't mean any insult to the people who fought in and lived through the Spanish civil war either.
That being said, I'm not sure I agree that every conflict through history is necessarily going to make for an interesting subject as a wargame, or if they 'deserve' the attention either. I doubt very much that I would buy a game about the English civil war or World war I. Nor would I be much interested in one about either the Gulf war(s), the Arab-Israeli wars or ANYTHING featuring Chinese armies!!!
Conversely, I might be willing to part with pennies for a game featuring the Falklands conflict(never been done?) or the Zulu war(could have real potential for a campaign game? an imcompetent human player could make a real mess of it from either side!).

Regarding the Spanish civil war, did finding reliable source material to make accurate oob's prove especially difficult?

Colonel Jim Wilkes.
2nd Brigade, Cavalry Division, XX Corps.
AoC. U.S.A.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:18 pm 
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"Can anyone on this forum actually name a battle from the Spanish civil war? or name 1 General?...other than Franco."

Spanish civil war (1936-9), conflict precipitated by a failed military coup d'état in July 1936, itself provoked by violent social and anticlerical disorders following the election of a Popular Front government. It became a protracted struggle between two uneasy alliances of traditionalist and fascist ‘Nationalists’ and the socialists, communists, Trotskyites, anarchists, and separatists known as ‘Republicans’.

The Nationalists were assisted by some 60, 000 Italian, 20, 000 Portuguese, and 15, 000 German ‘volunteers’ sent by their governments, plus about 2, 000 French monarchists and Irish Catholics. They were further aided by an effectively one-sided Anglo-French-American policy of non-intervention. The Republican cause attracted 40, 000 international volunteers in all: 15, 000 French, 5, 000 German, 4, 000 Italian, 3, 000 US, 2, 000 British, and 1, 000 each from Canada, Yugoslavia, Hungary, and Scandinavia. The Soviets, who acquired disproportionate political influence as well as Spain's gold reserves, were seldom more than 500 at any time. Although they provided many senior officers and much of the Republic's air, armour, and artillery, their contribution was curtailed in 1937 when Stalin recalled all his Comintern agents and most of his army officers and executed them as part of the great purge.

Although long portrayed as a dress rehearsal for WW II, it is best understood as a uniquely Spanish phenomenon, fought mainly by Spaniards in their own archaic military tradition and for very idiosyncratic reasons. With the exception of some experiments by the German Condor Legion in close support of infantry operations by fighter aircraft, the conflict cannot be seen as a proving ground for WW II tactics. The Republican cause attracted intellectuals from all over the world, whose idealized view of the conflict did not survive exposure to its realities. Like other ‘lost causes, ’ an oversimplified myth has tended to obscure the less black-and-white history.

The rebels included virtually the whole regular army officer corps and the long-service Army of Africa, plus the bulk of the rural paramilitary Guardias Civil. These were soon joined by the well-trained Navarrese Carlists and a larger number of fascist Falangist (political movement) volunteers. The Republic retained the support of most of the urban paramilitary Guardias Asalto and of variously armed and organized trades unions and revolutionary groups. It was the latter, in the face of the government's timid refusal to summon a levée en masse or to release arms to the spontaneous popular uprising against the coup, which provided the necessary leadership to thwart barracks revolts in Barcelona, Valencia, and Madrid, while closely besieging Nationalist garrisons in Oviedo and the alcazar of Toledo.

Once the coup failed, political leadership became decisive. The early deaths of possible rivals, including the Falange's charismatic founder José Antonio Primo de Rivera, left Franco unchallenged and he maintained unity of purpose on his side, including the Italians and Germans despite their impatience at his deliberate generalship. By contrast, Republican leadership was divided and rancorous, unable to command respect at home or abroad. The Basque provinces and Catalonia had their own separatist agendas while the rival leftist parties fought ferocious internal civil wars.

The Nationalists quickly gained control of a northern swathe encompassing all of Galicia and Navarre, most of León and Old Castile and half of Aragon and Extremadura. They established their capital at Burgos and their first attempt to advance on that front towards Madrid was halted in the first major battle of the war in the Guadarrama mountains. In the south, Seville, Cordoba, and Granada were seized and soon consolidated by the vanguard of the Army of Africa, airlifted by German transports. While half remained to garrison Morocco, the rest followed by ship under Italian fighter cover. After an early Republican counter-attack towards Cordoba was defeated and a coastal strip around Malaga was eliminated by Italian armoured troops in January 1937, the southern front became a backwater for the duration.

In the centre, the Spanish Foreign Legion spearheaded a Nationalist advance from Seville into Extremadura marked by characteristic atrocities. It then relieved the alcazar of Toledo and pushed on towards the capital, being stopped inside the city limits by militia and a small Soviet armoured unit. Although the defence of Madrid captured the imagination of sympathizers all over the world, the Republican government set a lamentable example by fleeing to Valencia. During the 1936/7 winter a Nationalist attempt to sever Madrid's communications with the Guadarramas failed and in February the newly formed International Brigades checked the Army of Africa in the Jarama mountains. In March an Italian armoured division, rendered overconfident by success against light opposition and on more suitable terrain around Malaga the year before, was humiliatingly repulsed near Guadalajara. In July the Republicans launched a bloodily unsuccessful counter-offensive at Brunete, but thereafter a vicious stalemate prevailed around Madrid.

In the north, the Nationalists under Mola advanced from Navarre to close the Basque provinces' French border in August-September 1936. Oviedo was relieved in October, many of the dynamite-throwing Asturian miners having gone to defend Madrid. Starting in late March 1937, Mola again attacked the Basque provinces from the east and Bilbao fell to his ponderous advance in mid-June. Santander fell in August and the conquest of Asturias was completed in October.

In the east, the revolutionary armies of Barcelona twice launched broad offensives in Aragon, but the Nationalists held the major towns, including a vulnerable salient at Teruél where savage fighting took place during the winter of 1937/8. Starting in March the Nationalists counter-attacked with heavy artillery preparation followed by short infantry advances across northern Valencia, severing the land-link with Catalonia in mid-July. Republican strength was shattered in a desperate battle on the Ebro in July-October and Catalonia collapsed early the following year. The Republican rump, torn by another internal civil war, fell to Nationalist advances from all sides in March.

The Nationalists had about 600, 000 under arms to the Republicans' 450, 000. They lost 110, 000 and 175, 000 respectively in battle, but 80, 000 Nationalist sympathizers were caught on the wrong side of the lines and executed, while 40, 000 Republicans were also executed during and after the war.

The Spanish civil war, 1936-9, and (inset) operations around the Madrid salient

— Hugh Bicheno

copied from ANSWERS.COM [:D] I cheated. [;)][:p][:o)]


MajGen Al 'Ambushed' Amos

The Union Forever! Huzzah!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:47 pm 
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Thanks, Al. Don't care how you got the information, it was very interesting, and I appreciate you sharing it.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:14 am 
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Personally, I can't wait for HPS to bring out their simulation of the Cod Wars[;)]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars

Fld. Lt. James Broadhead
2nd Brigade
1st Infantry Division "The Fianna"
II Corps "The Light Fighters"
Army of Alabama
CSA


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:34 am 
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Hmmm [?] It's interesting to ponder the whole nature of wargaming as a hobby. Do we 'play games'? or do we try to simulate tactics and strategy?
Personally, I think that the 'popular' subjects for wargaming titles such as Waterloo & Gettysburg are supported in their position at the top precisely because of their popularity. We know huge amounts about these battles in particular and the periods of history in which they were fought. The organisation of the respective armies, their weapons, equipment, tactics, leaders and relative strengths and weaknesses. So when I play a scenario of Cannae, Waterloo, Gettysburg or the Battle of the Bulge...I have a fair chance of being able to make a decent job of re-creating an experience that actually depicts the events in question.
The scale of the simulation isn't necessarily a problem either, you can try to faithfully re-create tactical, operational or strategic decisions in a similar way to the real thing. We can do this only when the subject at hand has been studied, examined and written about extensively. We know enough about Roman Legionary, Napoleonic, American Civil War and Blitkrieg tactics to be able to have a good attempt to play them out (in simulated form). Because we know what was achieved historically, we can measure our own attempts against history and try to re-write history through our efforts. If a Reb player manages to win a Gettysburg simulation, it suggests that such a victory may have been possible in reality. We can compare results and losses to history and understand something of it's significance.

On the other hand, I have a 'problem' with simulations of events such as the Spanish civil War because we know, comparatively, so little about the situations involved. That I believe is a fundamental difference. Give me a simulated Roman Legion to command and I could probably direct it in a virtual battle fairly accurately. In contrast, give me a Republican Militia Division from the Spanish Civil War and I don't think ANYONE would know what to do? reliable material just doesn't exist in large enough quantity to make the simulation reasonably accurate.
In my opinion, the simulation then becomes more of a 'game'. The unit counters have certain values...but can we truly believe them to realistically represent something? If you are playing, what is it you are trying to re-create? A 'game', in which you want to prevail against your opponents forces? or a 'simulation' in which you want to prevail against your opponents forces using realistic solutions?

Opinions please gentleman...

Colonel Jim Wilkes.
2nd Brigade, Cavalry Division, XX Corps.
AoC. U.S.A.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:05 am 
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Hi, General,

My guess is that somebody knows quite a lot about the Spanish civil War. In fact, there are probably veterans still alive who could be interviewed.

I imagine there is a wide diversity in the people who play these games. Some know about as much about ACW or napoleonic operations as you and I know about Spanish Civil War operations.

I am not going to get this title as I seem to have little time for anything but my first love, the American Civil War. My time management must be atrocious, I know. But I certainly hope a lot of people do.

Personally, I was disappointed in squad battles. I hoped it was AH's Squad Leader for computers, but I found the board game more dynamic (and more fun) than the Squad Battles, at least before it got so weighted down with rules it couldn't move. Just my humble opinion.

One last thing. There must be all kinds of information out there that we know nothing about, or just don't have time for. I could probably spend the rest of my life reading unit histories and autobiographies from the Civil War and not make a dent. I expect all conflicts have their chroniclers, though maybe not to the same extent.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:52 pm 
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Sometimes having a game come out leads people to investigate, read and reasearch an era, battle, war, etc that they have very limited knowledge of. The game intrigues them for some reason or other, and they buy it. Then they find it to be a door that opens a whole new world to them.

Since I was 12 I have investigated, read and research many, many wars, battles, etc, and 90% of those interests were stimulated (started) by wargaming.... miniatures, board games or computer.

If it weren't for some individual creating a game, or rules, or miniatures covering a time period they were passionate about, then I would most likely have never had the opportunity to learn what I have over the last 37 years.

Viva la niche market gamees!

MajGen Al 'Ambushed' Amos

The Union Forever! Huzzah!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:48 pm 
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I'm all for exploring the interesting but obscure or overlooked periods of history and respect HPS for giving us the opportunity to broaden our horizons.

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[url="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.r.barlow/acwgc/acwgc_personal_record.htm"]General Antony Barlow[/url]
[url="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.r.barlow/acwgc/western_theater.htm"]Commander, Western Theater, Union Army[/url]


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