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 Post subject: How many more?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:13 am 
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Gentlemen, the HPS ACW series now stands at a total of 11 titles. Of these I currently own 8 and I had planned, though not particularly urgently, to buy another 2 simply to complete my collection. With the release of the latest I now have the choice to add yet another title to the list.

Question: Do the members of this club feel that the continued expansion of the range is a positive or negative thing? and do they support it's ongoing development?

Personally, I wonder where the series is going to end. There is scope for further battles to be covered but I'm not sure if any hold that much appeal? Potentially, the collection could reach 15 or even 20 titles?

The games all hold a certain generic appeal for me but whilst I think HPS are the only show in town for this kind of software and have served the needs of the wargaming community admirably AND without equal...I'm not sure that the products represent particularly good value for money? I guess the cry of response will be: "If you don't like it? you'll just have to lump it!"

Certainly, I'm not forced to make any further purchases if I don't want to so what's my problem? My point is this: I don't buy these games with any intention of playing solo versus the computer a.i. as there just isn't a viable challenge for gameplay. I buy purely to play versus human opposition via e-mail and the ACWGC is the best organised arena for human opponent finding on any game subject that I've yet found.
I just feel, perhaps unfairly, that the forum for opponent finding becomes 'diluted' by the continued release of titles to the range of games. Ideally, the perfect situation would be to have 100% of club members owning 100% of the games. I think that potential for finding opponents can be damaged especially if certain titles prove to become much more popular than others.

Any thoughts or opinions on this? or am I a lone voice of disquiet?

Colonel Jim Wilkes.
2nd Brigade, Cavalry Division, XX Corps.
AoC. U.S.A.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:10 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Canada
After spending many hours over many years playing Tiller games, I'm afraid the system is just too old now to buy new titles.
It's been more than 10 years since Battleground Gettysburg marched down the pike, and while the game system has been tweaked in the HPS games, it's pretty clear they are painfully obsolete.
I would love to buy the new titles, but until the system gets a thorough graphics and game-play overhaul (when will we get even decent AI for solo play?), I'm going to keep my cash in reserve.
One only has to look at Empire Total War to see what is possible. Even older games, such as Battlefront and Take Command, have shown that it is possible to have good AI and better graphics.
And I'm sure I'm not the only player who is tired of watching AI controlled artillery batteries march right into your deployed batte lines in these games.
I own many of these Talonsoft/HPS games, and loved them in their time, but no more until the system is upgraded.
Regards, conjotter


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:18 am 
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The entire series of HPS ACW Campaigns gets refreshed with the new options and features generated by the newer games, so the older titles do not get stale.

Look at the BG series that has NOT had an update in many, many, many years, but is still played.

I think the end of the series would, logically, be April 9, 1865!!!!

<b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands
General, Commanding, Army of Ohio
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ACWGC Cabinet Member
ACWGC Records Site Administrator
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:11 am 
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I can't think of much more that needs to be done. The Shenandoah campaigns, of course. Grant's Overland campaign. The Petersburg siege. Louisiana and Arkansas 1862-1864. Maybe Sherman's March and Carolinas. That leaves a few small battles not covered, but those could be done on Corinth I.

I agree with Mr Conjotter that a better product is possible, but until someone else competes in the field, I see no alternative to HPS. I imagine no one competes because of a limited market, and so I am grateful to HPS and John Tiller for providing and continuing to support and improve what we have.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:12 am 
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Hi,

I know of at least three more in developement. But we take one day at a time. As far as the age goes, my comment is simple. These games are intended to model 2D board games, with a taste of 3D minitures added for good measure. We are always tweaking items to improve all areas, including the A/I.

If you want fancy marching troops played in real time, then these games are not for you. I suggest X-Box 360. But if you want a well thought out historically researched game, then there is no better series then the HPS ACW series, and age has nothing to do with it.

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:42 am 
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Posts: 1200
Location: USA
I am happy to hear we are not yet at an end - I'm looking forward to getting my copy of Chancellorsville, and will certainly add new titles as they are available.

As we saw when Corinth came out, people developed scenarios to cover many arenas of the war, big and small. Given the wide range of people here (historical re-creation buffs, just having fun playing wargames, and every stop in between), that's not surprising, so a continued thirst for even smaller arenas wouldn't surprise me.

I admit that some of my titles get played more than others. As a collector of sorts, I doubt I would pass up on any of them, though. This is less of an issue here at Civil War, but Panzer Campaigns (WWII), I have limited interest in the Eastern Front, but have bought the titles to keep a complete set, and played many of the smaller scenarios, but generally, I'd say I knew I was "wasting" my money along the way when I bought them. I also haven't even had enough time to fully explore and enjoy the titles I already have, in any of the 3 Clubs genres - ACWGC, PzCC, and CCC. Overall, looking back on my 6 years plus with these games, I'm very happy to have found them, and would be happy continuing to play them for 6 more years, even beyond. The fact that HPS has supported them is absolutely fantastic.

From that standpoint, I don't think I've wasted a dime with HPS titles, and I own 30 plus games from them...

BTW, Ernie - If they put out an Appomattox, I'm buying it, just to see the end campaign show Lee surrendering![8D]

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General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
ACWGC Cabinet Member
http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/UnionHQ/


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:22 am 
Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie. I want 'em all.[:D]

Col. T. Brewster
"Ohio Rifles"
2/1/II AoP
Union Military Academy Instructor

"We were lavish of blood in those days, and it was thought to be a great thing to charge a battery of artillery or an earthwork lined with infantry."

D H Hill speaking of the Battle of Mechanicsville


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:18 am 
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Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 4:46 pm
Posts: 557
Location: Canada
New titles are the main reason this Club is still functioning. New games results in new players joining the Club and increased interest. If it were not for the new games, IMHO, the club would have been less of a viable entity and probably would have been closed a long time ago because of a lack of interest. Think of it, 12 years and the ACWGC is still very strong, this would not have happened if only the BG titles were available, Matrix release of the BG titles increased membership not reduced it. In my opinion if you want the club and industry to survive new games must be introduced, bought, and played. New title do not dilute they enhance. Buy them and more will come. Yes the Tiller series need a good revamp but it will not happen if the new titles sales do not create a viable market. Buy the games TS or Matrix. It will only help the Club and the introduction of new titles.

I have always noticed a major increase in membership with the introduction of new titles. It means something not just a fluke.

Best Regards,

General Pierre D.
1st Bde, 3rd Div,I Corps
Army of Georgia, CSA

"NEVER get into a fight without more ammunition than the other guy."


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:29 am 
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Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 7:32 pm
Posts: 410
Location: Canada
I'm always interested by new titles. They are not only fun to play, they are a great way to learn and study the historical battles.
Which campaigns or important battles are not covered by the eleven HPS titles?
MG Mihalik is right: the two Shenandoah campaigns, Grant's Overland Campaign of '64 and the Petersburg/Richmond siege.
We also need a extra title to cover Sherman's final invasion of the Carolinas and minor campaigns like Red River, Florida, Mobile, New Orleans.
Thank you HPS for your good work.


Col. Harold Lajoie 2/I/AotM, CSA.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:14 pm 
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Posts: 215
How about some ACW titles at the company scale? There must be plenty of small scale actions that could be done that are too insignificant to cover properly at the regimental level.

Maybe the EAW engine would be more suitable, but surely the games - if any ever get created - should be played at this club instead.

Who here would like to see some co. level ACW games?

Take a look at the Blackburn Ford and Big Bethel scenarios if you'd like to get a taster:

http://www.brettschulte.net/ACWCGDC/1861east.htm

Brig. Gen. Rich White
3rd Brig. III Corps
Phantom Cav. Div.
ANV


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:45 pm
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Location: USA
It's all fine and dandy, but how about some patches for the other games[:D]. Not one of the others have had an upgrade since 2007[V]. Anyway HPS keep up the good work [:D]. "A bad day of FISHING, is better then a good day at work [:p]"

Respectfully,
Lt. Gen. Gery Bastiani
III Corp
AotM CSA



"If there is a shell or bullet over there destined for us, it will find us" - General James Longstreet


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:52 am
Posts: 870
Location: USA
Bill, you can make cav dance if you want. Just a quick change to the pdt will fix your problem. Just like the blue pill fixed your other problem. [;)]

Just kidding!

Rich White,

Remember, you did a company battle for Atlanta, the Battle for Dallas. But, in truth, it's tiring trying to do both. I'm getting older and perhaps I need the blue pill. [:(]

Guys,

Pretend these ACW games were only available in 2D, as is the new <i>Renaissance</i> game, what needs fixing from a visual POV? I don't mean engine upgades (we'll save that for later). As a 2D game, I don't see how these games can be called dated! As for the 3D, I accept it for what it is, OK! No running water, or deer poping out of the woods.

BTW, Tom Hooks has three new songs for C'ville, as well as a few oldies.


Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:51 am 
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Posts: 1737
Location: USA
There are a few more titles that could be done just to round out the coverage of the war. For sure Grant's Overland Campaign and Jackson's Valley Campaign. Unfortunately most of the others will probably be the wrong scale or to unblanced for this game system.

I would like to see some of the older games updated to the current engine. Especially Gettysburg with the newer artillery and weather handling.

Ultimately though, we are about to enter a new decade. It is time for a newer Engine adding some of the inovations that have been in board games for years like better command control rules, more detail simulation of units, etc. The typical computer now has a 2+ GHz dual or quad processor, 2+ GB of memory, and better graphics cards than when HPS engine was designed. A lot more is possible.

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
1/1/III AoM (CSA)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:41 pm 
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Posts: 40
Location: USA
I need to see the battles of: Rich Mountain, Droop Mountain, Mansfield, Jenkin's Ferry, Olustee, Wilderness, Spotsylvania, Bentonville, Cold Harbor, Little Rock, Honey Springs, Mine Creek, Cheat Mountain....I could go on and on and on. The problem I have with the battles people make using Corinth is not that they don't do a great job, but it take me, a total computer idiot forever to get them to work. I like the nice neat computer CD I can load onto my computer and play with just a modicum of difficulty. I mean I can barely can get the patches on there correctly. So please keep releasing new games until every battle, skirmish, and action is available for simulation. Including Wildcat and Palmetto Ranch...oh and the Far West battles of Glorietta...oops there I go again.

Brig. Gen. Jerry Butley


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:24 am 
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Posts: 461
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by boilertech</i>
<br />It's all fine and dandy, but how about some patches for the other games[:D]. Not one of the others have had an upgrade since 2007[V]. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The plan is to update the entire series once Chance has been out 60 days or so, already on JT's radar.

And the series isn't over yet, but definitely won't see 20 titles...not enough content for that.

LGen. Hamilton
II Corps
ANV, CSA


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