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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:41 am 
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Location: Black Mountain, NC
In HPS attackfromthewest, on a scale of 1 to 10, how gamey is it for the rebs to sit in force near the entry for VI corps, which is isolated from all other union forces, and then pin it in a corner. There is no way for the rebs to know VI is coming except that in the game you can look and see entry times and places. This tactic ruins what could be a very interesting and challenging match to one of pure advantage to one side just because of the way the game can be viewed. I don't see how the rebs can take any pride in winning this way, but maybe that is the only way for them to succeed. I wish we could have a button to make entry randon as to time and place to put an end to this gamey tactic, which is probably abused by both sides at various times. End of venting.

Lt. Gen. D. Groce
Commander
V Corps AotP
"beyond our ideas of right and wrong there is a field, I will meet you there"
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:49 am 
Good points David. I rate it a 7 on the gamey scale. At the same time I have often left troops off the map in order to avoid running into an ambush I knew was waiting. I once left 10,000 men off of the map and forced my opponent to waste 8,000 men watching an entry point for an entire day while we crushed his Army elsewhere. His choice eventually became to wait indefinatley or move away and reinforce his lines elsewhere. I agree it is gamey to wait for your opponent to enter and trap them - so you just have to be gamey back and wait to enter the board until night or just let them await an arrival that doesnt come until you say it does.

Col. Blake L. Strickler
Army of the Mississippi
Chief of Staff
6th Bd/4th Div/IV Corps

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:51 am 
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I would have left them off if I had know it was going to be this gamey.

Lt. Gen. D. Groce
Commander
V Corps AotP
"beyond our ideas of right and wrong there is a field, I will meet you there"
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:18 pm 
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This sounds like another issue to be discussed prior the the start of the game: Like remaining so many hexes away from an entry hex until arrival or something like that. Certainly this has been dealt with before?

Maj.Gen. Drex Ringbloom,
AotS Chief-of -Staff,
2nd Division Cmdr, "Corcoran's Legion", VIII Corps
Army of the Shenandoah
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:35 pm 
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It depends. If the scenario designer intended to force the Union player to protect the entry area or lose the use of the VI Corps then its isn't gamey. If the scenario designer just didn't forsee the possibility then its gamey and probably needs to be handled with some informal rules.

This situation occurs quite often and whether it is a problem depends on how easy it is for the player to compensate for it. For example in Campaign Gettysburg's 007 scenario Kilpartrick comes in on the York Pike. It is easy for Stuart that comes in a bit earlier to run over there and surround the entry hex. It's possible for the Union to do the same thing to Stuart using Bufford or maybe Gregg's cavalry divisions.

And, any scenario with Fixed units is subject to gamey play. I recently found that Devin has enough movement in the 007 scenario that he can go in and take out Rodes and Early's supply wagons if the player wants to scarifice a small cavalry regiment doing it. Considering the Rebel small arms supply situation this is an instant game winner. The designer didn't anticipate this little trick so didn't place an infantry unit with the wagons to prevent it.

General Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
2/3/IV AoM (CSA)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:48 pm 
I am sure happy, Kennon, that in the MP game we are playing at Gettysburg 007 that the Union players didn't read what you typed two weeks ago! [:p]

Maybe we should move that to the Southern Raiders area so the Yanks don't know it. Oh heck its too late anyways, two of the MP game Yanks I am against are already posting in this thread, lol.

Col. Blake L. Strickler
Army of the Mississippi
Chief of Staff
6th Bd/4th Div/IV Corps

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:06 pm 
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I am aware of that move but let it go.<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Target1221</i>
<br />I am sure happy, Kennon, that in the MP game we are playing at Gettysburg 007 that the Union players didn't read what you typed two weeks ago! [:p]

Maybe we should move that to the Southern Raiders area so the Yanks don't know it. Oh heck its too late anyways, two of the MP game Yanks I am against are already posting in this thread, lol.

Col. Blake L. Strickler
Army of the Mississippi
Chief of Staff
6th Bd/4th Div/IV Corps

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Gen. D. Groce
Commander
V Corps AotP
"beyond our ideas of right and wrong there is a field, I will meet you there"
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:13 pm 
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We don't need no stinkin' gamey tactics![:D][:D][:D][:0]

Maj.Gen. Drex Ringbloom,
AotS Chief-of -Staff,
2nd Division Cmdr, "Corcoran's Legion", VIII Corps
Army of the Shenandoah
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:43 pm 
Ah, Drex always amusing! Hope your vacation went well. Glad yall didnt use that tactic, David, I had no clue about it [:0]

Col. Blake L. Strickler
Army of the Mississippi
Chief of Staff
6th Bd/4th Div/IV Corps

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:33 pm 
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Location: United Kingdom - Exeter
Gents,

As the "guilty party" in this MP game I can confirm that the nearest Rebel force lying in wait was at hex 81,248 - 2-3 turns march north of New Baltimore which in turn was 2-3 turns march north of the entry hex. It had spent the 1st night of the battle at Georgetown guarding Throughfare Gap - there is plenty of evidence for this by an examination of the rather extensive network of breastworks there.

So are the rebels lying in wait and giving the VI Corps no room to maneuver?

Had the Union had Cavalry scouts west of the mountains then they would have ample to time to spot this division and move other forces to it's rescue.

Regards



Maj. General P. Kenney
3rd Division
Cavalry Division
IV Corps
Army of the Mississippi, CSA


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:44 am 
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I thought removing forces would result in a 2 level victory penalty, or I would have done that, am I wrong.<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br />I am in a game with Dwight McBride of Chancellorsville. There is a regiment of CSA cavalry that comes in in a woods hex along with four horse batteries. They are completely out in the middle of nowhere but behind the Yank lines. I ran the cav unit up the road but I exited the guns. The cav unit could get nowhere against his forces. I was not about to let the guns fall so I exited them from the map.

Again, had he known that that was an entry point he could have gathered near it but in this case his attention has to be on the Rebs to his front lest they overrun his lines. Still one cavalry regiment and four batteries are not going to flank him. So I removed the guns and am in the process of pulling the cavalry well back from the action.

There are just some things that were done in history that we cannot replicate. The numbers for instance: 300 cannot chase 1200 in this game series as its all about the numbers for the most part unless the morale of the larger force is E or F. Sometimes D.

So there are reasons why the units arrive where they do and guys like Rich Walker cant be blamed for that (and noone is doing that here) but its up to us how we want to use those forces and if its in our best interests to not use them at all then I think that is correct.

Brig Gen Bill Peters, The Boise Rifles, II Corps Artillery, AoA
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lt. Gen. D. Groce
Commander
V Corps AotP
"beyond our ideas of right and wrong there is a field, I will meet you there"
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