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Units ability to build breastworks??
http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15496		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  MSeger [ Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Units ability to build breastworks??
I can't remember how to find out how each unit's ability is to build breastworks. Seems like some build faster than others.
Please clue me in!
Thanks.
Author:  KWhitehead [ Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Units ability to build breastworks??
There is a parameter in the pdt file that controls the probability of a unit building one each turn. It is further modified by the size of the unit. I don't know how the modification is made but I suspect it works this way. In Gettysburg the probability is 18%. I think you get the 18% chance if a unit is at full strength of 1000 men. Units with less are probably reduced linearly to correspond to 0% for no men to 18% for 1000.
Author:  nsimms [ Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Units ability to build breastworks??
Kennon, are you sure because I thought that the probability is the same regardless of the size of the unit, e.g. a 1 man unit has just as good a chance of building breastworks as does a 1,000 man unit. I guess the little fella just has to work a lot harder.
Author:  D.S. Walter [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Units ability to build breastworks??
nsimms wrote:
Kennon, are you sure because I thought that the probability is the same regardless of the size of the unit, e.g. a 1 man unit has just as good a chance of building breastworks as does a 1,000 man unit. I guess the little fella just has to work a lot harder.


Didn't we discuss this a couple of weeks (months, years) ago?

I am still fairly certain larger units build faster, but I can't prove it either. But try a really very tiny unit and it will take longer.
Author:  KWhitehead [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Units ability to build breastworks??
nsimms wrote:
Kennon, are you sure because I thought that the probability is the same regardless of the size of the unit, e.g. a 1 man unit has just as good a chance of building breastworks as does a 1,000 man unit. I guess the little fella just has to work a lot harder.


Pretty sure. While I haven't ever done a definitive test, just put a <50 man unit to digging next to a 700+ and you will see the difference. Since its a probability based on unit size having a stack of units all trying increases your chance of success as well.
Author:  Ernie Sands [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Units ability to build breastworks??
[quote="KWhitehead"
Pretty sure. While I haven't ever done a definitive test, just put a <50 man unit to digging next to a 700+ and you will see the difference. Since its a probability based on unit size having a stack of units all trying increases your chance of success as well.[/quote]

That has been my experience. In a GB main battle, I had (in some places) 3 units per hex and set each to build in a different direction. It seemed to me that larger units finished first. I then set the unit that completed it's side, to work on the another side and both were able to complete most breastworks in a reasonable time.
Author:  NickT65 [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Units ability to build breastworks??
If I dig up the manuals (good luck there) I seem to remember a list of the factors that governed the chance to build breastworks, and unit strength was definitely a factor (if I recall correctly). However, I think fatigue factored in way more as far as detracting from a unit's ability to dig-in. Of course, this is referring to the TS engine and my experiences with it versus the HPS engine and my status as a relative neophyte playing with that version.
Author:  nsimms [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Units ability to build breastworks??
Here is the contents of the post last September from Stephen Trauth when this subject was discussed. I have had the opposite experience that some of you have related - I have had small units building breastworks a lot faster (sometimes) than large units do. I never noticed quality having anything to do with it, nor size, but I won't say that about fatigue level. The below comment from Rich Hamilton does leave the door ajar but not much.

COPIED POST STARTS

Ok -well, instead of relying on my memory (which is pretty inexact at times I went back and fished out the email).

Rich stated:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With that said, I don't see anything that says a larger unit will make them quicker than a smaller unit - but it makes sense that they would. Could be a behind the scenes thing, as JT doesn't always reveal every little tidbit of detail.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What brought this email exchange about was that I was asked this by someone I was playing a match with at Gamesquad. The manpower affecting creating breastworks is not documented in the HPS user.doc file - and I don't recall if it is in the Talonsoft manuals - so I need to correct myself, Rich H did not say 'no, manpower does not affect breastwork building.', like I had first wrote- but rather - that no, it is not documented that manpower in a unit affects breastwork creation, but it could work that way and be undocumented.

Which, in effect means that Mr Whitehead could well be correct. I hope that is the case --- I understand about the unit frontage angle, but a unit can create a breastwork that any units able to fit in the hex can use.

COPIED POST ENDS
Author:  D. Groce [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Units ability to build breastworks??
Here is how my pea brain looks at this subject: If it takes one man 10 minutes to dig in, why would it not take 100 men about 10 minutes to dig in? Each man is only digging in for himself, correct? OK, I'm dug in and ready to be blasted for my thought process. So the fact that the minumum entrechment has to support 1000 men takes us from real life to game life, just as I thought it would.
Author:  nsimms [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Units ability to build breastworks??
The principle of what you said is correct but it falls apart when the breastwork that one man dug can be used by a 1,000 man unit next turn. It's not a perfect world - and it's not a perfect game either so almost anything could be the way that the game is programmed.
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