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 Post subject: Campaign surrender ettiquette
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 1:45 pm
Posts: 164
Location: USA
I support the premise that if you are getting defeated in a campaign battle that the winning side should have the option of declining a termination bid in order to exploit their success since losses carry over to the next fight. I personally don't like doing this, and will accept a bid when an opponent submits one since if you completely crush your opponent in the first battle, then the campaign will often be ruined for both. I just really enjoy the "what's going to happen next" aspect of campaign games. That said, is there a point where the defeated side should be honorably allowed to end the game? I am in a multi-player campaign and at 2000 points the Union had earned a major victory. The game has now continued to allow the yankees to exploit their victory and they have reached 4200 points. Of the two Confederate Corps on the field, one is destroyed completely and the other, mine, has been trying to withdraw. My forces have now been engaged and I either have to turn and fight or sacrifice 2 brigades at minimum. I guess I am interested in opinions about this from both the victor and defeated perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: Campaign surrender ettiquette
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:51 am 
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Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 4:51 pm
Posts: 2795
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I think it is an individual option to accept a bid (or collective in an MP game). There are no rules or guidelines to govern the acceptance or denial of a termination bid, nor should there be, especially in a campaign game. (Unless there was some agreement otherwise.)

In a campaign, if you are the winning side, you want to wipe out as many of the enemy as you can so that they are at a disadvantage in the next scenario; in a single scenario game, the bid would probably be accepted.

I think the onus is on the losing side to be able to preserve their forces and fight a rear guard action with enough force to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: Campaign surrender ettiquette
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 10:10 pm
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Location: USA
I've had a few campaign battles where I realized barring my opponent making a mistake or having terrible luck I had no chance to win, in which case I packed my bags and tried to get as many troops off the map as possible and hope to have a better situation in the next battle. If you offer a termination bid and your opponent refuses this is probably your only option.

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 Post subject: Re: Campaign surrender ettiquette
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 1:45 pm
Posts: 164
Location: USA
Ken, We have passed that point. The fight in question was the 1st of a campaign which is a meeting engagement at Rocky Face Ridge. One of our Corps faced almost the entire Union Army and has been destroyed. I am moving the other as quickly as I can to the map edge but the Yanks have now caught up with me. Oh well it is what it is...

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Army of Northern Virginia

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 Post subject: Re: Campaign surrender ettiquette
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:49 am
Posts: 391
Location: USA
Once, in the finale scenario of a Franklin campaign, at a point where I had just achieved a minor-level victory, my opponent put in a termination bid at the current level. I refused the bid because I wanted the chance to attain a major victory . . . Whereupon my opponent refused to continue. That was lousy, but I didn't have much choice--! Rats.

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 Post subject: Re: Campaign surrender ettiquette
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Yes, "fair" is a nebulous term unless it's regulated and enforced. I had one to quit on me because he offered a termination bid and I declined it until he would have 2,000 more casualties than what I had (would have taken 1 or 2 more turns because I already had them isolated). He didn't even say KMA, just quit responding.

I'll usually tell my opponent that they're fixing to be crushed and that I would accept a termination bid if they offered, even when it is at minor victory level (don't think that I've ever done that or will do that for a draw). I wouldn't do that if I had previously been spanked and needed to reduce his forces or if his losses wouldn't impact future scenarios (but I would have to consider that my losses might impact mine). It might be fun every now and then to play an opponent who doesn't have a chance but it's usually not too much fun for the opponent.

Our best defense is normally one that is 'after the fact', and that is choosing who we play as we all have different standards and outlooks. Playing strangers is usually a good experience and many friendships have formed, but every now and then it can be a bummer. There isn't any need in ruining your day over it though - just cut your losses and move on at the time of your choosing.

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