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 Post subject: Stats for all games and scenarios
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:24 am
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
I found this link: http://garyned.tripod.com/Scenarios.htm but it is dated 2004. Seems really useful in selecting a scenario to play.

Is there an updated compilation of wins/losses for all games and scenarios?

Is there a similar listing output from the auto-game registration/reporting system? (If it exists, and I missed it, I apologize)

Thanks.

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1st Lt. Mark Gaff
Pennsylvania
Army of the Potomac
First Brigade/Second Division/I Corps


Webmaster of the Official Civil War Talk Radio website, Impediments of War; A Compendium of Civil War Talk Radio at http://www.impedimentsofwar.org/


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 Post subject: Re: Stats for all games and scenarios
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:58 pm 
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Back in those days, we only had the Talonsoft BG game system that contained only standalone battles and the options available for game play were not as complicated. Mark Nelms would get extracts from the club database and I used those to put them into the format that you found (the link is on the Link Express in Club Related Sites). It was very handy in helping to determine the balance of each scenario before a game challenge was accepted or determining what scenarios to play in a club/army tournament.

However, we lost that database and thus the reports ended. It is possible to do this again with the Talonsoft BG games but none of us have done it but it is almost impossible to do it with the HPS system for numerous reasons : 1) it makes a big difference in game play as to which options are being used and that information isn't captured; 2) so many people don't know how to properly identify and register a HPS game and thus it is appalling how many times the "Campaign (Enter description in Comments) /0" is used which tells us absolutely nothing; 3) there are so many different possible scenarios that it would take a computer to maintain it; 4) with the campaign aspects of HPS, a win or loss 2 or 4 scenarios into a campaign doesn't tell us much either because a bummer of a loss in game 2 of the campaign could turn a sure fire Reb win into a Reb loss in game 4 of the campaign.

Now the good news, they (Don Adams and Ernie Sands and probably others) have put together a report in the Department of Records (DoR) that gives you the information that you're after. It isn't summarized like the report that you found but here is what it is and what it does:

Game Scenario Report - By selecting a specific game, all games that have been played and entered in the database will be listed, sorted by scenarios to include who the players were, which side they played, how many turns were played, and what the results were.

Maybe you can make something useful out of it for the club - and if you do, let me know so that I can put it on the Link Express.

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Gen Ned Simms
1/1/XIV Corps/AotC
Blood 'n Guts hisself, a land lovin' pirate. Show me some arty tubes and we'll charge 'em.
VMI Class of '00


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 Post subject: Re: Stats for all games and scenarios
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:48 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Thanks!

I looked through the database......Now you got me thinking on how to setup the database using Excel or MySQL or MS Access and how to present the results, etc, etc...and i can't stop!

Damn You!!

I'll probable have it done in a few weeks! LOL.

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1st Lt. Mark Gaff
Pennsylvania
Army of the Potomac
First Brigade/Second Division/I Corps


Webmaster of the Official Civil War Talk Radio website, Impediments of War; A Compendium of Civil War Talk Radio at http://www.impedimentsofwar.org/


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 Post subject: Re: Stats for all games and scenarios
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:45 pm 
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I used to do it in MS Access back when I was tracking it all. Of course then I was just learning Access and considered it all rather fun to do.

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General Mark Nelms
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 Post subject: Re: Stats for all games and scenarios
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:50 am 
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I transferred the data for TS Antietam to an Excel spreadsheet. Lots of inconsistent data entry...so I will probably just keep everything in Excel and manually delete/modify info to the best of my ability. (i.e. How did "The Battle of Gettysburg" get into TS Antietam!!!)

Biggest issue is the scenario names that were entered vary a bit....so that will take some time to work out, manually.

Edit:
I am also deleting any entry that has 0 or 1 turn completed as final number of turns. This would be useless data.

This leads to a question, what ratio of [turns completed] to [turn in the scenario] should I keep? If the scenario has 8 turns and they completed 3 turns and declared a winner, is that enough? Should it be 50% completed? 25%? 75%? 100%

My goal here is to just update the win-draw-loss data presented in the current links express page (that I posted above). I may add percentage info also.

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1st Lt. Mark Gaff
Pennsylvania
Army of the Potomac
First Brigade/Second Division/I Corps


Webmaster of the Official Civil War Talk Radio website, Impediments of War; A Compendium of Civil War Talk Radio at http://www.impedimentsofwar.org/


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 Post subject: Re: Stats for all games and scenarios
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:13 am 
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Opinion only: throw out the 0 and 1 turn games and keep the rest except keep the 1 turn results for games that are scheduled for 9 or fewer turns. The vast majority of people will do one of two things when a game gets registered but doesn't get started: 1) go through their chain of command to have the game deleted and thus you won't see it; 2) end it as a Draw showing 0 or 1 turn played. You'll find that percentages just don't apply equally to all of the scenarios as some long scenarios can be legitimately ended early. On the other hand,with a 3 turn scenario, a 1 turn result might actually be valid. In the previous list that is currently on the Link Express, all of the TS BG original scenarios were listed but custom scenarios were not added until 5 results were available.

I'm not sure if you're only doing this for the TS BG games or also have the HPS games in mind. In the old list on Link Express, the HPS games had started but was already finding unique problems associated with them when the project crumbled. There is one problem currently being discussed by the Cabinet that is a good example of how HPS games can skew stats: if a standard scenario is custom designed to include weather, should the game be registered as the original standard scenario or should it be listed in the DoR as a separate game. The standard answer has been to use the standard scenario to register the game and include the differences in comments. Let's see you gather stats based upon what is in comments because weather could change the winner of the game. Another problem with HPS games is that all of the original standard scenarios have not been listed in the DoR for selection as a registered game and very few of the customs have been. I gave up trying to capture HPS stats as they become meaningless fast for numerous reasons.

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Gen Ned Simms
1/1/XIV Corps/AotC
Blood 'n Guts hisself, a land lovin' pirate. Show me some arty tubes and we'll charge 'em.
VMI Class of '00


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 Post subject: Re: Stats for all games and scenarios
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Well, after doing the stats for TS Antietam, I decided my efforts are futile. I have less data than the original tables available in Links Express. I assume that all TS games are that way, since the HPS games seemed to become more popular since the original table was compiled. I had to "throw out" over 100 games in the Antietam data due to incomplete information. I worked with over 800 games played. But the totals per scenario are less than the original table.

I do not own any HPS games, yet. So my knowledge and motivation aren't as great to compile the data. But I may make an effort eventually.

_________________
1st Lt. Mark Gaff
Pennsylvania
Army of the Potomac
First Brigade/Second Division/I Corps


Webmaster of the Official Civil War Talk Radio website, Impediments of War; A Compendium of Civil War Talk Radio at http://www.impedimentsofwar.org/


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