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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:44 am 
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Gentlemen!

Gather 'round the campfire and grab a whuskey. I have 2 short tales to tell Yiz.

A short while into my military career I was called upon to serve as a CC. My rank at the time of this request was the lowly but honourable rank of Major. In my mind I was mortified and extremely embarassed signing mails and posts as Major Carroll CC of II Corps, AoG. (Shortly after assuming the Command - I hit the mark and could just about afford the shoulder boards of Lt. Colonel Rank).

This did NOT assuage my embarassment . . . . I felt that I was an anomoly and that it 'didn't look well' for the CSA to be fielding a Corps commanded by a mere Lt. Col. Why? . . . Well it just 'aint done' in a Real Life Army . . is it? But the anomaly stood and had to stand because . . . I was the only available 'willing' officer and the structure of the AoG counted for more than a silly 'blip' in the appearance of the CSA OOB.

Now this current topic . . . leads me to my second vignette. (I would - with great respect - class the Topic as a 'New Guy Issue'. (NGI)

Not too long after I assumed my CC posting, The AC retired to the Ranks. It appeared as if a crisis was looming on the AoG Command horizon. If such a proud and distinguished Army had ‘slumped’ to such a pitiful condition that a Corps was ‘led’ by a Lt. Col. – what was gonna happen next? The AoG ‘led’ by a Fld. Lt.???

Shock! Horror! !GASP! . . Ooooooh the shame of it all!!!!

A Brig. Gen. volunteered and his enthusiasm was welcomed and hailed as ‘the next great Event’. A new Army website appeared. Medals and Ranks were caught up on, and conferred. The ‘Ship’ was righted and we awaited orders as to which direction we were to advance against the Enemy. And the Direction arrived . . . . with NONE of us liking the prospects.

Our new AC was a ‘New Guy’. He had been a member of the Club for approximately 12 months and had shot from Cadet to B. Gen. in reasonably record time. He had ideas galore and when they were in place – we’d all see that this would improve, morale, participation, communication . . etc, etc, blah, blah, blah!

I believe that His attitude bears a loose resemblance to some of the thinking behind Our Current Topic.

The AoG was AN ARMY! It was now HIS ARMY! And BY DANG! It was gonna run like a ‘proper’ Army, along established military Lines and when running to these strict lines - it would conquer ALL before it!!!!! <SALUTE!!!!>

He introduced the concept of de-merits. Effectively, failing a muster, lack of comms on Club, CSA and AoG forums, slow Battle activity, non-participation in Tourneys, lack of Manoeuvres in conjunction with a current Battle, (an active Battle AND an active Manoeuvre at all times), scratching your Arse on Parade, etc, etc, would lead to de-merits and if enough de-merits were earned a percentage of an Officer’s next Rank would be added to their qualification FOR the next Rank.

(e.g. for a Lt. to reach Capt. 45 OBD points PLUS 10% . . . that Officer would have to hold 50 OBD points (49.5) to reach Captain’s Rank. To reach Major, He would have to earn 65 OBD’s + any de-merit ‘bonus’ he earned as a Captain. De-merits were eternal and continued to count against each accumulated Rank.)

Discipline Boys . . . DISCIPLINE!!!!

There was Pandemonium in the Ranks and Junior Commands! There was Rebellion! There was talk of Seccession! A small few Officers went AWOL and one Officer actually deserted the CSA and the ACWGC. (They all came back later on . . . phew!)

This AC was hoisted over a Mule, taken to a dark and lonely shack, where he had a stick of dynamite ceremoniously planted where Daisies Refuse to Grow, lashed to a chair with 100 feet of fuse and a Lucifer match was then struck. Before the match burnt down to the thumbnail, He understood the Club’s concepts of Fun, Participation, its Social Functions etc. . . And conceded that – on paper – His Plan appeared to be a good ‘un . . . BUT . . . - in practice - it was detrimental and contradictory to the ethos of the Club.

This Club is a Games Club – “With a Military FLAVOUR”, with an “Historical FLAVOUR” – It is NOT a Ladder Club, NOR is it a Group of Armies fighting a WAR.

As a GAME Club . . . . the importance of the Games, the Sociability of the Members AND the PRIZES . . . these are the Primary and Important aspects.

A ‘Montana Militant’ is NOT gonna join the ACWGC to further his political aims – because ‘get this Cleetus . . . this hain’t an Army!’ The vast majority of Gamers won’t join us if We become one.

RANK is in some respects - a NON-event in this Club.

Sitting in on a MP Battle, pitting 5 Four Stars against 4 Three Stars, A Five Star and a Fld. Lt. . . . . matters about as much as 5 Refuse Collectors playing against three Doctors, two Lawyers and a Catholic Priest . . . . . at the end of it all . . . . the winners - in ALL senses intended within the Club's ethos are . . . . .

(Drum-Roll . . . . . . . . Da da Dom Tish BOOOOM!)

The Participants!!!!. (and the Crowd goes WILLLLLLD!!! Haaaaaayyyyyyyhhhhuuuuuuu)

Rank can be a measure of achievement within the Club. It affords those that wish to draw comparisons between different Members a loose weak manner to do so. We are not a ladder club after all.

Rank is a personal target of achievement for the New and continuing Members of the Club. The Lt. aims for Captaincy. The Captain to become Major and so on. A little personal ‘lift’ when the next Rank is achieved.
(I have another anecdote for this - but I'll save it for another time.)

Rank is already ‘capped’ at Brig. Gen.

Any other General Rank involves Admin duties within the Club Structure and those Ranks constitute Recognition and Thanks for that Officer’s contribution to the maintenance of the Club.

To remove an Officer’s Major, Lt., or General’s Rank is akin to throwing sand in his face, implying “Well You were a 2, 3, or 4 star General – while Ye were useful . . . NOW, go back to the Refuse Pile of ‘Has Beens’.

As the Laubster as opined – pinning Rank to Command will generate 'Stick in the Mud Generals', maintaining their exclusivity of egotistical 'Superiority' of Rank - by refusing to stand down and allow another Officer the opportunity to partake of that level of Command . . . if they desire to.

(BTW - What’s the point of assigning Terms of Office, to these commands, if there is the disincentive of losing one’s rank by standing down ???)

When an Army is led by a Lt. Col. (as per Scott’s experience) or a Corps being led by a Major (as per my own experience) . . . it doesn’t look right . . . to the Military or Historical ‘purist’.

BUT – so what? Who Cares? The important and relevant matter is that there’s someone IN the position, performing the FUNCTION and keeping the Club/Army ‘Ticking Over’.

Anyone thinking that it looks strange can/should head for the Forums, jeer at them good naturedly, p’raps needle a little, with a Grudge Match developing and a challenge issued where the ‘strange’ commander defends his Honour on one of Our many Battlefields. . . An ‘inconsistent’ Commander’s Rank . . . benefitting the Club, by generating (a) many Battle(s) . . . .

Enough for now Gents . . . I weary!

More anon – if needed . . . :mrgreen:

Pat.

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AoG


Last edited by eireb on Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:38 pm 
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Too many capitalizations and onomatopoeia.
Got a headache now...
But fair enough, I will stay silent.

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Last edited by CharlesdePecquer on Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:49 pm 
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CharlesdePecquer wrote:
Too many capitalizations and onomatopoeia.
Got a headache now...
But fair enough, I will stay silent now.


whispers: my apologies Charles . . . . :lol:

Pat.

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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:29 pm 
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Gentlemen <salute>

I personally like the current system, although I also wouldn't be opposed to changes. I enjoy the gaming, especially our Gator MP battles. I've been a division commander for nearly two years now and have a great relationship with a great bunch of guys. That's the most important part.

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General Neal Hebert
Edward C. Walthall Division (2nd aka "Gator Alley")
II Corps, Army of the West
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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:42 pm 
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The system isn't really broken. I say leave it alone. We all know that until you obtain a Division command or higher those OBD points take a while. I remember thinking I would never make full Colonel. Promotion beyond BG requires additional command experience. I think the system is ideally suited to do what it does: encourage game play early on but club responsibility after you are more experienced. One minor thing that irked me early in my career was the lack of command opportunities and how, as Gen. Carroll pointed out, sometimes those commands went to very junior officers. Before a Corps Command is given to a major every available General officer in the army as well as Colonels and Lt. Colonels should have had the opportunity for the command. A Corps commanded by a major is having a very bad day.

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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:41 pm 
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I believe we have more problems with volunteers to fill positions than opportunities, but I might be wrong.

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General Neal Hebert
Edward C. Walthall Division (2nd aka "Gator Alley")
II Corps, Army of the West
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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:15 am 
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laubster22 wrote:
Ernie Sands, Bill Peters, Pat Carroll, Scott Ludwig - might take another 8 years in this Club before those 4 agree on a topic! :shock:


Haha! Ain't that God's Honest Truth! :mrgreen:

laubster22 wrote:
I also think taking away rank is a lousy way to thank those folks who put in the time and service to achieve them in the first place. Let's face it, other than the blue toe tips for Pat, that's ALL the rank really is - a recognition of THANKS from the Club. Doesn't make you better, doesn't differentiate between wins and losses on the battlefield.

Raising the points totals negatively impacts newer folks. It's good that they have frequent early motivation and reward. At least I found that to be true for me when I joined.


I agree with both these points & also the points others have continued to raise. I can verify from my experience what Neal Hebert has said that there is a shortage of volunteers. Naturally there are a few guys out there who don't know they can actually apply. I mean Nick Kunz can't be Mr. CSA forever....we'd really love it if you would Nick! :mrgreen:

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General Scott Ludwig
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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:16 am 
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Btw, always entertaining Mr. Carroll!

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General Scott Ludwig
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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:29 pm 
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I read many interesting points.

The Rank/points issue does not seem to be something that needs fixing as per the consensus.

What other ideas and solutions could the Cabinet tackle to improve the club?

I am sure there are great solutions out there we just need to hear them and work them out.

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General Pierre D.

5th Bde, IV Cavalry Corps
Army of Northern Virginia
ACWGC President 1997 - 2006, 2012
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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:12 pm 
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General D.

It certainly appears so . . . . :)

Not meaning to be critical or picky about grammer - your phrase "ideas and solutions "
implies that there are problems . . . . :lol:

Personally, I do not see any 'Problems' per se , altho' I would be the first to admit that there is certainly plenty of scope for how we - as a Club - could handle certain Club functions in a more effective manner.

I've looked at a particular topic that appears sporadically on these boards and has been addressed before - albeit in (with no offence intended to Cabinet, CSA Colleagues or the Union Brethern) in a piecemeal fashion.

I believe that a concerted and concentrated Approach to the Topic I have in mind would be of great unarguable benefit to the entire Membership.

I intend to address this subject on a new thread -here on the Cabinet Forum very shortly. I have no great idea or suggestion regarding how to address this Approach . . . I intend to present some facts and verifiable information - thus opening the subject to the Membership and leading to an informed debate.

As part of the preparations for this 'presentation' - it would be most helpful if I knew (approximately) when the current DoR 'opened its doors' for business.

Anyone remember when that was? :shock:

Pat.

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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:32 am 
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Target1221 wrote:

The Average Club Member has roughly 708 OBD Points.

There are (of 370 Members):
39 Full Generals in the Club (10.5%)
37 Lt. Generals (10%)
78 Major Generals (21%)

This means of the 370 Members roughly 41.6% of them are considered Senior Officers.




Note that only cranky old generals have voiced their opinion on the matter.
Would it not be nice to have some of the other 58.4% of the club expressing themselves before you guys claim victory and the debate close?

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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:33 am 
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CharlesdePecquer wrote:
Target1221 wrote:

The Average Club Member has roughly 708 OBD Points.

There are (of 370 Members):
39 Full Generals in the Club (10.5%)
37 Lt. Generals (10%)
78 Major Generals (21%)

This means of the 370 Members roughly 41.6% of them are considered Senior Officers.




Note that only cranky old generals have voiced their opinion on the matter.
Would it not be nice to have some of the other 58.4% of the club expressing themselves before you guys claim victory and the debate, closed?

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Colonel C.G. de Pecqueur
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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:55 am 
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The DOR was started about the middle of 2005.

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Western Theater, Commander, USA
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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:07 am 
CharlesdePecquer wrote:
Note that only cranky old generals have voiced their opinion on the matter.
Would it not be nice to have some of the other 58.4% of the club expressing themselves before you guys claim victory and the debate close?


The debate is not closed. It has been ongoing for a very long time. The issue is finding a solution in which a majority of Members can agree on. Demoting Members who have earned certain ranks is something that, as far as I know, would be a very radical idea in this Club. That singular stumbling block dismisses most ideas and proposals on this topic. Speaking for myself I could care less what my rank is. Notice my signature has Lt. General though I am, in fact, a full General. I am just too lazy to get it changed! But just because I dont mind being busted back down to a lower rank it does not mean Member X would not object.

I am actually all for a restructuring of the Rank System in the Club. My own opinion is that it would give us veterans new goals to shoot for in trying to reach higher point totals, it would restructure the Club to give proper rank identifcation to those leading certain units (Generals leading Brigades?), and it would help to give more recognition to those who are currently holding and contributing to the Club in staff and command positions on both sides. I would love to see it done if a workable compromise could be found in which an overwhelming majority of Club Members could agree upon. But thus far I have seen little possibility of this as most Members I have spoken to have mixed feelings on the issue.

As Pat Carroll and others have pointed out the Club is not broken so why try to fix it? I agree. It is not broken at all. Instead we are playing more tournaments and games in 2011 than we have in past years. In the end it is about doing what is best for the whole Club and it seems that until a proposed compromise could effectively generate widespread support on this issue that it is best to leave well-enough alone.

And, as always, if anyone ever does wish to be heard on any issue please feel free to email any member of the Cabinet with your thoughts. We always welcome new ideas and proposals.


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 Post subject: Re: Club Points and Rank Questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:32 am 
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Ultimately I think the focus needs to be on continued member recruitment & retention. Also expansion of games played, if any good ones on the market is not a bad idea either....

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Commanding Officer & Chief of the Armies (CoA) of the Confederate States of America (CSA)

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