American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)

Major Olinsky: I must disagree strongly with the points you made. What you are suggesting is a coterie of cliques, each with its special interests, not answerable to anyone or the members as a whole. The club members have two binding interests: the playing of the games in a pbem environment and an abiding interest in the Civil War..
A division will contain members who carry different loads in terms of game playing, post in the forums at varying rates and email as much or little as they choose and still exist in harmony with each other. The only requirement is to muster, not an onerous duty, otherwise the members are left to their own devices. Yes, we encourage posting in the forums and taking on leadership roles in the club. The more active one is, the more enjoyment one has in being a member.
I believe that any group of officers, who desire to form a new division, could do so upon request of the Army Commander. It would involve adjusting of the other divisions, but it still could be done. It usually is not done because members already feel that they are with "like-minded" individuals. However, in the Army of the Shenandoah, Corcoran's Legion was formed as an "Elite Unit". It has since devolved into a normal unit due to retirement of the original members but it is an example of what can be done. The problem with forming new divisions is finding men who are willing to command them. It is not enough to just hold the position. Division Commanders must reach out to the men and make them feel apart of the unit and the Club. This is what will hold the club together. We already have common interests.

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Gen. Drex Ringbloom,
AotS ,Commanding

Major Olinsky:

A thoughtful, insightful post. You have provided an excellent synopsis on the club structure and the basic reason for the club and for the structure.

It is hard to disagree with your message, but I have to agree with Drex about the forming of Divisions by affinity, without any oversight.

I think we all do have a common interest, already.

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General Ernie Sands
President ACWGC -Sept 2015- Dec 2020
7th Brigade, 1st Division, XVI Corps, AoT
ACWGC Records Site Admin

"If you do not know where you are going, any road will take you there."

Gentlemen,

Well... where ever two or more are gathered... there is bound to be a difference of opinion! And I respect that!

I am confused how Lt General Ringbloom thinks a new Division could be formed without a Division Cmdr. If a group of individuals desires to form a new Division they will MOST CERTAINLY already have an individual who is willing to serve as the Division Cmdr.

I am also confused by how General Sands thinks that the newly formed Divisions with not have any oversight. They will still fall under the oversight of the Army Commander, the Theater Commander & the Chief of the Armies & the Cabinet. The only change will be that the newly formed Elite Division will have control over who will be assigned to the Division. I probably did a poor job of expressing the concept... for that I apologize.

I am aware that there was a Corcoran's Legion but I do not know any of the history or the background of their formation within the Club. I did not know that they were even considered an Elite Division. Perhaps they were not good representatives of the ideas that I am trying to express here. Perhaps there is some baggage surrounding that whole situation of which I am unaware of.

Quite honestly, I thought the comments on the Army of the Shenandoah page were simply ideas someone submitted but that had never been implemented. Had I know the establishment of Corcoran's Legion as an Elite Division turned out to be a failure... as it was never again replicated... I would have never made reference to the Definition of Unit types on the AoS page and soiled the idea I was trying to present by association.

Ah well... another lesson learned by a young Officer!

Major Olinsky: As a former Corcoran's Division Commander, I can attest to the fact that it was not a failure because the common members, Gens Niall Murphy (still active) , Dierk Walter (ret.), Matt Perrenod(ret.) and Mike Dean (LoA) were actually together for many years . But such an association can not last forever because life situations change and eventually the individuals will go their way. Once the association broke up, the "Elite" status disappeared. I invite former members of Corcoran's Legion to add the history as I was only a member for the last two years.
Of course a division must have a leader but I was stating the fact that these individuals are few and hard to find and they must have the men ready to fill the ranks. If you are such a man, we welcome you and invite you to form your own division - but you must petition the Army Commander and find other members to join you (at least three). An Elite Division can approve of new additions to their ranks but can't remove them without Army Commander approval because where would the poor unfortunate go? An Elite division commander does not have the authority to place men in other divisions.
To summarize, we already have the protocol in place for the division you are describing so there is no reason to re-invent the wheel.
Respectfully,

Lt.Gen. Drex Ringbloom

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Gen. Drex Ringbloom,
AotS ,Commanding

And that they would have no need to muster, as all other members have to and that the DC (and other division members) would control the inclusion of new members. Although the muster part is more difficult to understand.

Keep up the lessons.

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General Ernie Sands
President ACWGC -Sept 2015- Dec 2020
7th Brigade, 1st Division, XVI Corps, AoT
ACWGC Records Site Admin

"If you do not know where you are going, any road will take you there."

Don't let the Club's structure which exists primarially for organizational purposes limit what you do in the club. If you want to create an group of players for MP games just do it and role play it any way you want. It doesn't need to be an official organization. If you want to get four or more like minded players together and call yourselves the "Valley Army" and challenge the Union to form one to fight you in a series of battles (they can be the "McDowell's Lossers") do it. Post an AAR on the forum and maybe it will get some more people interested in doing similar things. Maybe both sides form some pseudo groups to fight MP games.

Speaking of the Valley, once upon a time someone created scenarios for all the Valley battles to use in a tournment but I think it was in Battleground system. Did anyone ever come out with a Corinth version?

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General Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
AoT II/1/3 (CSA)

Gentlemen,

You know that does make sense... thank you!

Lt General Ringbloom is right. You could only maintain the Elite Division status as long as you have the Officer's with the time and dedication to invest the amount of time required. I'm fine with having the Army Commander approve the removal of Officer's from the Elite Division. Like you suggest above... a real life situation could arise that wouldn't allow that particular Officer to continue at the elite status and I could see them stepping down and requesting transfer to a regular division.

General Sands... Lt General Ringbloom says they have the protocol established for Elite Division's but they are in the eastern theater. Do we have the same protocol in our theater? Also with regards to my comments that elite Divisions would NO LONGER NEED TO MUSTER. My thought there is that since an Elite Division is operating at a high level of activity there would be no need for individual Officer's in the Elite Division to "Muster In" because the Division Commander would be in almost constant contact. The Division Cmdr could submit a Muster to higher command on behalf of his Division as he is fully aware of their activity.

The only reason the Club has individual Officer's "Muster In" is that in regular Divisions the situation often exists where some Officer's are fulfilling only the minimal requirement of Mustering and maintaining one battle and beyond that... they have absolutely no contact with their Division Cmdr. So it makes sense in those situations to have some sort of Muster policy or we wouldn't know if they are still active or not. I don't think it's wrong for the Club to have members who function at this minimal level of participation... as that may be all the time they have available. I just think it's unfortunate when an active Division Commander has a Division with a bunch of Officer's who are members "in name and assignment only" and don't actively participate in the Division's activities at all. That was what I was trying to address by suggesting that Officer's be able to form their own Divisions, be able to transfer to existing Divisions so that we might sort ourselves out according to our levels of participation and by our interests. I wasn't at all suggesting that we break up into cliques and separate ourselves from each other like Lt General Ringbloom first implied. I believe he realizes that was not not intention now.

General Whitehead's has a good suggestion about being able to form a pseudo group of players for MP games that is not an official organization. There is some merit in that. But... there is also merit in it being an official organization also. If you are a Division Cmdr and a participant in pseudo group... wouldn't there be the possibility of neglecting your responsibilities as a Division Cmdr? Or even worse... maybe you become so involved in the pseudo group that you decide to step down as a Division Cmdr. Drex already referred to the fact that finding good leaders for divisional command is sometimes an issue. We don't need to compound that problem. And can a pseudo group participate in a Divisional Tourney? I think the formation of an official Elite Division is better overall... and a good Elite Division is going to be reaching out for new members of the Division to replace those whose commitments change if they want to stay viable over the long run.

Anyway, thank you for the comments! You've given me some great things to think about. I am interested in the Elite Division idea and would like to give it a try in the future but I know right now I haven't discovered those other like minded individuals who are as interested in the idea as I am. But I'm looking for them... and any one interested in the same can sure drop me a line!

I was a member of this club since the beginning. Had a lapse of duty, couldn't be contacted and was dropped, so I guess I am part of that attrition number. Was having problems in my life at the time, it had nothing to do with the club. My life stabilized and I rejoined! Very happy to be here!!

Still to this day, I go through phases where I play a lot and then back off for a while. I am sure the same is true for others. I am always very glad that the club is here when I return!!

I have never had any interest in Admin duties, but, I am sure that there are people out there who enjoy them. What ever rules they come up with is fine with me, I just want to play. You want me to muster, I'll muster. You want to award medals, I'll take them. You want to drop medals, my life will go on! I don't really care too much about rank, I could remain Brig Gen forever, it wouldn't bother me in the least! I do care about my win-loss record.

I don't complain because I don't Admin!

BUT I do WIN, so come on you Yankee dogs and fight!!!

Just for the record, if we were living back in these days, I would definitely be in the Union Army! Morally, that is where I stand!! I play the Rebs side for the challenge.

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Brig Gen Kyle FitzMaurice
4th Engineers, 2nd Inf Div, I Corp,
Army of Alabama
CSA

Major Olinsky: Gen. Whitehead has suggested the way you could form an Elite Division. Just get together 3 more officers (from any unit or Army) and advertise in the Opponents forum for MP games. This will allow you to form a playing style and perhaps changout officers who don't work out. When you have your "final four" you would petition the Commander of the Army of your choice for Elite Status and ,if approved, petition the Chief-of-the Army, Joseph Meyer, for acceptance and transfer into the chosen Army. If all members were from the same Army then only the AC's approval would be needed. If officers were all in the same Theater, then the Theater Commander could approve.
Neither the Club Rules or the Union Standing Orders mention "Elite" status but neither do they prevent it. The Army of the Shenandoah has standing orders for the creation of an Elite Division and the Union Army is welcome to adopt it if necessary.

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Gen. Drex Ringbloom,
AotS ,Commanding

What a great club this is! So much room for good order, expression and experiment!

It's probably why this club has and eventually will succeed!

Brig. Gen. FitzMaurice, let me remind you, sir, that you'd be welcomed into the ranks of the UA anytime you'd admit to seeing the error of your ways!

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General Jos. C. Meyer, ACWGC
Union Army Chief of Staff
Commander, Army of the Shenandoah
Commander, Army of the Tennessee
(2011-2014 UA CoA/GinC)

Slightly off topic but Kennon mentioned the Valley scenarios. I believe they were by Tony Malone. No idea what became of those.

I do know there are a few Valley battle mods for HPS, whether they be 1862 or 1864, on the following site:

http://www.brettschulte.net/ACWCGDC/index.html

These go on the Corinth version 1.01. Another useful site for these is:

http://home.comcast.net/~acwco_hps/

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Brigadier General Dale Lastowicka
2nd Brigade
Hindman's Division
Stewart's Corps
Army of Tennessee
Confederate Army

with respect,

i think the points, ranks and medals are a great thing,,,its our badges of honor,,its kinda nice to look back and see just how much fun you had while earning them. i have to admit i like to look and see how it changes from time to time with new numbers and additions of new medals,,,but of course mine and gen. dragons never are posted for some reason,,,lol,,,,plus i enjoy looking at the other officers and see just how acomplished they have become over the years.

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MG. Vannada
Headquarters:
Red Jackson's Division
Nathan Bedford Forest Cavalry Corp (3rd)
Army of The West

Major Olinsky:

You should check with your CC or AC about forming divisions.

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General Ernie Sands
President ACWGC -Sept 2015- Dec 2020
7th Brigade, 1st Division, XVI Corps, AoT
ACWGC Records Site Admin

"If you do not know where you are going, any road will take you there."

General Sands,

Thank you, Sir! I will certainly do that in the future.

Major General Shaw and General Danner are exceptional Officer's and I know they would be supportive of assisting me in anything that is beneficial to the Club. I hope no one gets the impression that I am at all dissatisfied with my current situation. I'm proud to be in the Army of the Cumberland and the XX Corps! I'm thankful to be the Division Commander of the FIRST INFANTRY DIVISION and am enjoying all the duties and responsibilities that I have there. But most importantly... it's an honor to serve alongside of the fine Officer's of the Division... General Burke, General Barlow, Lt Medoro, General Roubaud and Lt Colonel Simondson.

I guess I was a bit stirred by what Bill Peters wrote and I wanted to submit my thoughts and ideas about the whole Elite Division concept I'd seen on the AoS web page. As it turns out... it's not just an idea but something that was already in practice. I think that's great! I'm glad that option is out there to be pursued in the future!

Major Olinsky, Sir <Salute>

Sir, seeing as how the entire Army of Georgia is already an elite coterie of Yankee bashing cliques, I offer our humble services in any campaign you may devise. Further, Sir, I encourage you to speak out each and every time you hear defeatist talk in the ranks, and most especially on the subject of our Beloved Club. Creative thought, that's what makes all this imaginary beer work. Keep it up, Lad.

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General Prax Swan
1/3/III ANV