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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:04 pm 
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nelmsm wrote:
Cruces wrote:

Would you think a Mexican War Variant for the the Club might be valuable?

MG Elkin
XVIth Corp-Commander
AotT


As to the Mexican War variant I do believe that the Cabinet discussed adding Mexican War to our line up but in the end it was decided to leave it with the Colonial Campaign Club as it was part of the Early American War series.


General Nelms,

Since the format allows for questions from opponents I would like to asks the following questions.

MG Elkin asked you a question and you answered that it was discussed and not accepted because it was in another club. The response does not tell us what you think and is too general, what is your position?

I put forward the request to include this game in the ACWGC. I would ask that you clarify your answer and give your personal view. Just because a game is on another club why would not make it worthwhile to be included in the ACWGC? Every other title that our club supports is available in other clubs. If that is the answer then why do we have an ACWGC? You can play all the games at the Blitzkrieg club? The Mexican- American war is not more appropriate to the American revolution than it is to the Civil war considering it was a prelude to the ACW and many future ACW General fought in it. The actual tactics are closer to what happened in the beginning of the ACW. That is my view and is why I suggested it. Should we not take advantage of any games that could expand our club and make it stronger?

There are several questions here and I would like to be enlightened by your response.

I think that it would be interesting to understand the reasoning.

Since I proposed that the Mexican - American war be included in the club, my position is obviously clear, your position, which is an important indication of your Presidency is very important to understand. I think it would be of interest to the voters.

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General Pierre D.

5th Bde, IV Cavalry Corps
Army of Northern Virginia
ACWGC President 1997 - 2006, 2012
ACWGC Forum Administrator


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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:19 pm 
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Posts: 300
Location: USA
I wish to put forth a brief endorsement of General Nelms. In doing so I must say that though my acquaintance with him was but a brief period of a few of years while I was the DC of The AotC's XIV Corps, "Cumberland Sabres," and the AotC's Adjutant, I nevertheless came to know him as a very enthusiastic participant in the club, a willing volunteer and very accomplished officer from the stand point of both battling, campaigning AND in giving of his time to club matters. He is open-minded and, I believe, every bit as willing to listen to any suggestion as he says he will be. How could anyone not vote for one of us who is the epitome of integrity and will respectfully consider and discuss any member's ideas in a logical and rational manner.

I came to understand how modest he was when I learned that he never had received the awards for dozens and dozens of battles for which he was entitled. When it came to my attention with that of a similar situation of another AotC member, I started an exhaustive research of the DoR and referred my rather substantial finds to General Gross, the AotC's AC and General Barlow, the AotC's webpage master, for their endorsements. General Nelms never asked for such a project and had never complained that he had not formerly been given the credit. As a senior officer within the Union side of the club he had every right to insist that his awards profile be correctly updated! But he was simply more interested in the playing of his games and the health of the club than he was of any particular recognition.

It is my view and belief that the claims he expresses, to honor all ideas and respect the view of other members, are demonstrated and founded on what I believe to be his clearly demonstrated integrity and selfless interest in the club for the club's sake, and not upon his own entertainment or prestige. I also like his suggestion that there be more discussion of the vast history of the battles and personages of the ACW. That to me sounds like a wonderful sideline for both the sake of learning and entertainment.

A vote for General Nelms will be a vote for the club's welfare. Thank you.

_________________
Major General Tom Ciampa
AoC XIV Corps, Deuce Fourteen


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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:10 pm 
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Posts: 851
Location: Panhandle of Texas
pierred wrote:
nelmsm wrote:
Cruces wrote:

Would you think a Mexican War Variant for the the Club might be valuable?

MG Elkin
XVIth Corp-Commander
AotT


As to the Mexican War variant I do believe that the Cabinet discussed adding Mexican War to our line up but in the end it was decided to leave it with the Colonial Campaign Club as it was part of the Early American War series.


General Nelms,

Since the format allows for questions from opponents I would like to asks the following questions.

MG Elkin asked you a question and you answered that it was discussed and not accepted because it was in another club. The response does not tell us what you think and is too general, what is your position?

I put forward the request to include this game in the ACWGC. I would ask that you clarify your answer and give your personal view. Just because a game is on another club why would not make it worthwhile to be included in the ACWGC? Every other title that our club supports is available in other clubs. If that is the answer then why do we have an ACWGC? You can play all the games at the Blitzkrieg club? The Mexican- American war is not more appropriate to the American revolution than it is to the Civil war considering it was a prelude to the ACW and many future ACW General fought in it. The actual tactics are closer to what happened in the beginning of the ACW. That is my view and is why I suggested it. Should we not take advantage of any games that could expand our club and make it stronger?

There are several questions here and I would like to be enlightened by your response.

I think that it would be interesting to understand the reasoning.

Since I proposed that the Mexican - American war be included in the club, my position is obviously clear, your position, which is an important indication of your Presidency is very important to understand. I think it would be of interest to the voters.


I personally do not think that the Mexican-American War should be included in our club. Even though many of the American Civil War participants saw combat in this conflict, so did Winfield Scott and I don't expect to add the War of 1812 to the line up either. Okay, that was my attempt at humor. If you look at the scale of Mexican-American War it is at the company level where as the games we play are at the regimental level or higher or at an operational/strategic level. The Early American War series is at the same scale or strategic and I think it's a better fit for that club. My most compelling reason though is that we are the American Civil War Gaming Club. The Mexican American War was not part of the American Civil War. The Mexican American War was really more akin to a Colonial War and to my mind that is where it fits. If someone would create the Spanish American War, American-Indian Wars, or the Franco-Prussian War I would also argue against their inclusion as well. I believe it would take away from the flavor of the club being an American Civil War Gaming club.

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General Mark Nelms
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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Posts: 300
Location: USA
Only because I am currently playing a Mexican-American War game now. I like the idea of that game set being only in the CCC because it gives that club one more choice among only a few that are available now. Unless I am not up to date I believe the CCC has only 1776, 1812, F&IW and Mex-Am. The ACW has so MANY game series as it is, including the grand strategic ACW choices that personally I would not like to see us compete with that club having the one of the same games here. I hope this is not an unreasonable viewpoint. I guess I see that club as much less active in many ways than the ACW. Anything that adds appeal to it will help them recruit.

Thanks.

_________________
Major General Tom Ciampa
AoC XIV Corps, Deuce Fourteen


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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:08 pm 
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Posts: 1678
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Good luck Mark! I agree with your stance on MAW by the way.

Also, so you know I place adverts that stay up for a whole year on Matrix for the Club and also other game makers. I need to renew the Matrix ones though, so thanks for reminding me of that.

Also Pierre was most gracious to assist me in the marketing by adding a new stats counter program that generates not only data about who visits the main Club site, but also tells us what referrer page they came from, if they used a search engine and what search term they used. I used it for years at the iNWC for marketing purposes and it is very rich in the referrer data. It allows you to see if posts you've made are effective and in the past allowed me to see where folks were posting about us, if the main page link went up. Then I'd join and comment. Also did things like routine Google searches to see if folks were talking about us that way.

These are all things that can be applied at the ACWGC.

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General Scott Ludwig
Commanding Officer & Chief of the Armies (CoA) of the Confederate States of America (CSA)

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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:55 am 
Gen. Nelms,

What is the President's role in uniting the Club? Where do you, personally, draw the line in the sand between what is considered a members personal independence of choice and their command structures perceived right to command and order actions based on the historical period we are "representing"?

At the end of the day which is more important - a members freedom of choice and thought or a command structures right to control their officers?


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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Posts: 851
Location: Panhandle of Texas
Blake wrote:
Gen. Nelms,

What is the President's role in uniting the Club? Where do you, personally, draw the line in the sand between what is considered a members personal independence of choice and their command structures perceived right to command and order actions based on the historical period we are "representing"?

At the end of the day which is more important - a members freedom of choice and thought or a command structures right to control their officers?


As the leader of the club the President has to do everything he can to make the club membership an enjoyable experience for all members and to work for the clubs continuation into the future. As to whether a members freedom of choice and thought or the command structures right to control their officers takes precedence is very dependent upon the situation and can't be answered with a choice of one or the other. I would say each would come down to specific circumstances but I would think in most cases I would lean toward the members wishes as much as possible. It would not be prudent however to say one way or the other without having the facts of the case before me. Those situations would have to be handled as individual instances as they arose.

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General Mark Nelms
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6/2/XIV/AoC "Blackhawk Brigade"
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Union Cabinet Secretary
Union Military Academy Instructor


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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:23 pm 
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General Nelms <salute>

Suh, my compliments!

I will speak plainly when I say that command, at any level, has no inherent right to "control" their officers. Each of us joined voluntarily, and unlike the Confederate States of America, have the right to leave as well.

I do not have the distinguished history in the ACWGC that you enjoy, however did serve as a division commander for two years and now command a corps within the Army of the Mississippi. I see these as positions of "trust". My highest mission as a commander is to motivate the officers under my "command" to participate in club activities, communicate in the MDT, muster each month, and basically do what I can to make their experience in the ACWGC enjoyable enough that they will remain with us. Their "freedom of choice" is whether they remain in the club or not. Perhaps I've read everything wrong.

Highest regards,

_________________
General Neal Hebert
Edward C. Walthall Division (2nd aka "Gator Alley")
II Corps, Army of the West
CSA Cabinet Secretary


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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:09 pm 
Gen. Nelms,

In what instances that could arise would a members right to freedom of action/choice/thought not be appropriate? So long as they follow the Club Rules I mean. I was not aware that the command structures were allowed to ever control these things. Members should muster once a month and follow the Golden Rule (do on to others...) but beyond that what would give a command structure the right to order, restrict, or question their officers?


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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:33 pm 
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Location: Panhandle of Texas
So if an officer decides he wants to be the Army of Missouri then we have to acquiesce and let him form the one man Army of Missouri? I am sure that in almost every case the individual's wish would be honored but to make a blanket statement that the individual should always get his way would be irresponsible in my view.

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General Mark Nelms
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6/2/XIV/AoC "Blackhawk Brigade"
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Union Cabinet Secretary
Union Military Academy Instructor


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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:09 pm 
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General Nelms <salute>

Suh, my compliments!

"So if an officer decides he wants to be the Army of Missouri then we have to acquiesce and let him form the one man Army of Missouri? I am sure that in almost every case the individual's wish would be honored but to make a blanket statement that the individual should always get his way would be irresponsible in my view."

I thank you for your reply, however don't you think that there's a bit of overkill in your response? I comment on my vision of what command is (I have a pretty good record), and suddenly you have members out to create armies on their own with no way to stop it?

Highest regards, but not my vote

_________________
General Neal Hebert
Edward C. Walthall Division (2nd aka "Gator Alley")
II Corps, Army of the West
CSA Cabinet Secretary


Last edited by Neal Hebert on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:14 pm 
nelmsm wrote:
So if an officer decides he wants to be the Army of Missouri then we have to acquiesce and let him form the one man Army of Missouri? I am sure that in almost every case the individual's wish would be honored but to make a blanket statement that the individual should always get his way would be irresponsible in my view.


Club Rule 3.2 3.2 Organization of new theaters and/or armies and elimination of existing theaters and/or armies must be approved by the Cabinet.

So your response to someone who would ask for a designation to a non-existant Army would be to flatly tell them no rather than to point out the fact that the army 1) does not even exist and 2) that the creation of any new armies would have to be approved by the Cabinet. My question stipulated that the theoretical action was not contrary to Club Rules. But your example was one that was contrary to Club Rules.

But I get your meaning overall. And I agree it would be irresponsible for something like that to happen. But thats a procedural error issue more than a freedom of thought issue. What I am more concerned with is rather anyone in the high command have the right to question a members right to think freely or to vote as they see fit?


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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:29 pm 
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Location: Panhandle of Texas
Neal Hebert wrote:
General Nelms <salute>

Suh, my compliments!

"So if an officer decides he wants to be the Army of Missouri then we have to acquiesce and let him form the one man Army of Missouri? I am sure that in almost every case the individual's wish would be honored but to make a blanket statement that the individual should always get his way would be irresponsible in my view."

I thank you for your reply, however don't you think that there's a bit of overkill in your response? I comment on my vision of what command is (I have a pretty good record), and suddenly you have members out to create armies on their own with no way to stop it?

Highest regards, but not my vote


My example was just that, an example, and the first that came to mind. My main point was that I would not make a blanket statement saying that an officer would have his individual wishes always granted. I appreciate your interest with or without your vote.

_________________
General Mark Nelms
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Union Cabinet Secretary
Union Military Academy Instructor


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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:35 pm 
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Blake wrote:
nelmsm wrote:
So if an officer decides he wants to be the Army of Missouri then we have to acquiesce and let him form the one man Army of Missouri? I am sure that in almost every case the individual's wish would be honored but to make a blanket statement that the individual should always get his way would be irresponsible in my view.


Club Rule 3.2 3.2 Organization of new theaters and/or armies and elimination of existing theaters and/or armies must be approved by the Cabinet.

So your response to someone who would ask for a designation to a non-existant Army would be to flatly tell them no rather than to point out the fact that the army 1) does not even exist and 2) that the creation of any new armies would have to be approved by the Cabinet. My question stipulated that the theoretical action was not contrary to Club Rules. But your example was one that was contrary to Club Rules.

But I get your meaning overall. And I agree it would be irresponsible for something like that to happen. But thats a procedural error issue more than a freedom of thought issue. What I am more concerned with is rather anyone in the high command have the right to question a members right to think freely or to vote as they see fit?


Well Blake your conjecture that I would just tell an officer a "flat out no" is just that, conjecture on your part. My example was just that, an example, and the first that came to mind. I would respectfully reply to any officer who came to me with an issue despite your implication that I wouldn't. As your comment about someone in command not allowing someone to vote or speak as they freely think that is the first this subject has come up. Any officer should be able to freely speak or vote how he feels on a subject and I will stand behind that statement. If you know of such a situation currently existing then as our current President you should be dealing with it or if is a separate question then you should have made it such.

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General Mark Nelms
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Union Military Academy Instructor


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 Post subject: Re: Gen. Mark Nelms Campaign Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:58 pm 
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General Nelms <salute>

Suh, my compliments!

I thank you for your reply and wish you the best of luck in the election.

_________________
General Neal Hebert
Edward C. Walthall Division (2nd aka "Gator Alley")
II Corps, Army of the West
CSA Cabinet Secretary


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