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 Post subject: Re: ACWGC Presidential Election
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:39 pm 
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As has been stated before it is the right of any Club member to have their say about their preferance of candidate. I hope this debate has the up-side of getting our members out to vote :mrgreen:

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General Cam McOmish
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Georgia State Volunteers Brigade
Patrick R. Cleburne's Division
Hardee's Corp
(1/1/1)
Confederate Army of the Tennessee

CSA

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 Post subject: Re: ACWGC Presidential Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:38 am 
The issue there and why I support the right to email members on such things (Besides those already stated), is that I have heard that only a small minority of the club members ever read this forum......I have done my part to get out the vote.....


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 Post subject: Re: ACWGC Presidential Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:09 pm
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Location: USA
As long as it does not get negative, I am in favor of canvassing the whole club for votes. Its time these functions were more lively and energetic!

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Gen. Drex Ringbloom,
AotS ,Commanding


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 Post subject: Re: ACWGC Presidential Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:11 pm 
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General Ludwig <salute>

Suh, my compliments!

I apologize if my actions disappointed you. When push comes to shove, you shove back. If you don't, what are you?

The "high ground" was abandoned upon receipt of a rider from the Chief of the Yankee Armies mass emailed to the officers of the Confederate States Army soliciting their vote for his candidate. I did not find this in good form, particularly from a senior member of the ACWGC. That the solicitation came from Chief of Armies of his candidate is a conflict of interest to the club as a whole, in my opinion; he stands to gain from the election of his candidate.

Highest regards,

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General Neal Hebert
Edward C. Walthall Division (2nd aka "Gator Alley")
II Corps, Army of the West
CSA Cabinet Secretary


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 Post subject: Re: ACWGC Presidential Election
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:03 pm 
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General Ringbloom <salute>

Suh, my highest compliments!

I am in favor of canvassing the members for votes, and did so by riders to the members of my command. I simply advised them that the presidential election was underway, encouraged them to read the forums and vote their conscience as was their right as members of the ACWGC. I never offered my thoughts of who they should vote for, only that they vote.

I even agree that a mass email to the CSA would have been acceptable had it come from General Nelms stating his case to "fellow members" of the ACWGC. Of course, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

On the other hand, if cabinet members are allowed to not only send dispatches to their respective commands with their "recommendations", as well as mass emails to the officers of the other army soliciting votes, where does it end? Should the president of the ACWGC be afforded the same opportunity to openly support the candidate of his choice?

General Barlow <salute>, that is what I meant by "Super PAC". The candidate avoids all recriminations since he has no "control" over the actions or words of those solicitors speaking on his behalf.

Highest regards,



Something to consider for future elections, I suppose.

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General Neal Hebert
Edward C. Walthall Division (2nd aka "Gator Alley")
II Corps, Army of the West
CSA Cabinet Secretary


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 Post subject: Re: ACWGC Presidential Election
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:21 am 
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General Herbert,

Thank you for your explanations. I hadn't considered some of the points you make, and I'm still not sure there really is a problem relating to General Meyer's actions (I believe he is acting openly and transparently with honourable intentions, exercising his right to free speech, and reaching out to those who don't visit the forum), but I acknowledge that there is a difference of opinion within the club on this issue. I'm sure these issues will be explored and clarified before the next election, hopefully leading to some consensus within the membership, so that the focus can just be on the relative merits of each candidate...

Regards,

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General Antony Barlow
2/1/XX, Army of the Cumberland


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 Post subject: Re: ACWGC Presidential Election
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:02 am 
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The president of the Club will represent all members. there is no Blue or Gray here. The CSA and Union armies are not political parties. Anyone can support the man of his choice and urge others to do so.There are no conflict of interests here.

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Gen. Drex Ringbloom,
AotS ,Commanding


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 Post subject: Re: ACWGC Presidential Election
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:15 am 
Drex,

I real life, voters who are affiliated with either party can cross lines and vote for the opposing parties candidate, so that is no different. Any attempt to deliver a block vote from one side of the club or other is indeed a defacto political party. That has been done (I believe for the first time), in this election. Do I view it as wrong? I'm honestly not sure, so don't read that into what I am saying. I agree that what you said about the North and South not being political parties is the ideology the club was set up on, but I am not sure it is present reality. It would take an analysis of the votes to determine that.....I think everyone agrees, that right or wrong, some traditions have been broken. Whether that is OK is up to the individual opinion.....


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 Post subject: Re: ACWGC Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:18 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 4:24 pm
Posts: 55
Location: United Kingdom
I for one did not appreciate the 'mass mailing' of club members by someone endorsing one of the candidates, if there is to be a mass mailing then there should be only two, and those two should come from the respective candidates themselves. Here is the reply I sent back to Gen. Meyer(and all other recipients) upon getting his second mass e-mail:

It’s bad enough in real life elections getting spammed with junk mail from all parties concerned without having to put up with this ****. In all my years in the club this is the first time I can ever remember this happening, and if it is to continue then things are going downhill rapidly when it comes to electioneering. Maybe, just maybe, the 241 who haven’t voted yet either:

A) Are undecided
B) Haven’t got around to voting yet
C) Don’t give two hoots and aren’t going to vote.

It maybe the ‘American’ way to endorse candidates like this but I for one don’t appreciate getting electioneering junk through my inbox. I hadn’t voted when you sent your first lot of junk to my inbox and I may well have voted for Mark having played and gotten to know him several years ago, and knowing that he is a ‘decent chap’ etc. But I’m afraid to say that when I read your first piece of electioneering ****, which I thought was rather disparaging towards Pierre, I went and voted straight away and as you can probably guess it wasn’t for your ‘guy’.

Lt-Gen Malcolm Hunt
CSA

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Grey Immortals
Granite Infantry Division
III Corps
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 Post subject: Re: ACWGC Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:44 am 
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Since when is endorsing a candidate, no matter what his position in the club, wrong? Mass mailing is little different than posting in the MDT except it is more specific and can be deleted the same way you throw away the leaflets that arrive in the mail. At least he isn't calling you on the phone. these elections need to be more lively and enthusiastic without getting negative. If someone changes their vote because he doesn't like getting endorsements, then he is voting for the wrong reason.

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Gen. Drex Ringbloom,
AotS ,Commanding


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 Post subject: Re: ACWGC Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:23 pm 
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So before you know it everyone has e-mails from the 200 people(extreme I know) who choose to endorse their preffered candidate by mass e-mail, and then it is only a small step to the 'American' way of having 'negative campaigning' from pressure groups who want to bring their issues to the forefront as represented by their preffered candidate.

Well I for one don't even want to get anywhere near that sort of thing creeping into, what at the end of the day is just, an internet club made up of people with a common interest, namely the ACW and it's gaming of, we are not voting for a national goverment who are going to raise taxes, send people of to war or do away with health services, therefore let's keep real life politicking and/or electioneering out of this club, because I for one don't want to be saying 'I told you so' in 4 or 5 years time. As I said if there is to be a mass e-mailing, to reach those who don't read the boards, then it should only come from the candidates themselves and there should be limits on the amount sent out.

As for changing my vote because I don't like getting endorsements, well I didn't change my vote. I hadn't voted at the time because I was undecided, but when I read the 'endorsement' I thought it was rather disparaging towards one of the candidates and that is why I voted the way I did.

I would just like to point out that there is no 'wrong reason' why an individual votes the way they do, a ballot is an individual decision and therefore who are we to tell people that they 'voted wrong' just because we disagree with their reasoning in doing so.

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Lt General Malcolm Hunt
Grey Immortals
Granite Infantry Division
III Corps
AoG
CSA


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 Post subject: Re: ACWGC Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:11 pm 
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We have such a low voter turnout because no one takes an interest in who is running. A man may make a statement of his candidacy and yet not reveal everything good about him for fear of boasting and backlash. Let others who know his real values and strengths endorse him so others can know more about this man who wants the thankless job of being President of the Club.
Others have complained that it breaks tradition to endorse but I say "what tradition?". Traditions are celebrated but convention is not and it is just a convention that people have not got on the forum to push their candidate of choice. You abhor mass-mailings but i think you confuse the ACWGC with something else.
You try to explain that you did not change your vote because of the endorsement then go on to say that you did exactly that because it was so disparaging. There are wrong reasons to vote - like getting paid to vote a certain way, voting twice,etc. One needs to vote for the man not on the endorsement. But that's water under the bridge. you voted as is your right as it is the right for anyone to support a candidate, either in writing or by ballot.

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Gen. Drex Ringbloom,
AotS ,Commanding


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 Post subject: Re: ACWGC Presidential Election
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:55 pm 
I am going to go ahead and lock this one down.

Nobody has said anything "bad" or against the rules but I think we can all see this issue continuing around in circles until someone does finally say something they can't take back. This topic has been here for a few days and everyone has had a chance to speak their piece so hopefully that can be the end of it. If anyone wants to carry on their debates in private (via email or private messages) please feel free to do within the acceptable bounds of ACWGC Conduct.

I have received many... many... emails this week from people on all sides of this issue so I now how divisive it is. I have been giving everyone the same advice - take a day and cool off. The election ends tomorrow and after that I hope we can once again return to Club life as normal.

Many people have mentioned wanting to propose amendments to the Club Rules in the coming weeks or months. It's within every members right to propose amendments but I hope everyone will take a mental break of a week or two after all this as I have heard some pretty heated rhetoric and proclamations this week. I for one plan to lose myself watching College Football and the Baseball Playoffs this weekend!

If anyone has any issues with this being locked please private message me or email me.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments on this thread but I hope you can see why I am shutting it down. I also hope you will understand my desire to keep the peace and prevent any running debate that nobody will win and little good can result from if it gets out of hand.


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