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 Post subject: Re: Forrest or Stonewall
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:25 am 
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Johnson's movements were per Ewell's orders. It was a side effect of Stuart not being around to tell Lee where the enemy was. By the time Ewell/Johnson new they needed to be at Gettysburg it was to late to redirect them by better roads. The error Longstreet made was giving priority to the the division wagon trains instead of letting Anderson and Johnson use the Pike to get to Gettysburg. Why he did this is a mystery. My assumption is he didn't believe there was a major fight going on so it was alright to leave combat troops on the side of the road for some four hours while baggage trains used it. There is not a lot said in most books on what was occuring on the west side of Cashtown but it had considerable effect on the battle. Need to go do a little research to get my times and places up to date.

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General Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
AoT II/1/3 (CSA)


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 Post subject: Re: Forrest or Stonewall
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:37 pm 
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General Whitehead <salute>

Suh, my compliments!

I love the way Stuart keeps coming into the conversation :wink:

Johnson's Division and the route of march is probably key to the outcome of the battle. If he remains with II Corps and is available the Yanks lose deceisively on day one. You state his route was as ordered by General Ewell, and I won't dispute that.

My point is that Johnson's march probably decided the outcome of the battle, as General Lee was concentrating the army for battle. If Johnson arrives with the rest of II Corps on day one it's a major CSA victory with the AotP driven throught the heights beyond Gettysburg. This decided the battle, regardless of Stuart's whereabouts.

Again, was there some misunderstanding or miscommunication which resulted in Johnson's march, or was it a operational failure on the part of General Lee?

Highest regards,

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General Neal Hebert
Edward C. Walthall Division (2nd aka "Gator Alley")
II Corps, Army of the West
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 Post subject: Re: Forrest or Stonewall
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:31 pm 
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Here is a partial answer based on "The Gettysburg Companion" which is a wealth of information:

From page 334, initially Lee ordered Ewell to Chambersburg because he didn't know where the enemy was and wanted to keep behind South Mountain. He later changed his mind and ordered Ewell to keep east of the mountain (not go to Gettysburg). Ewell ordered Rodes and Early toward Heidlersburg but it was to late to change Johnson so he was order to move to Greenwood and use the Chambersburg pike to join the Corps east of the mountains.

On page 314 they give a good summary of what Lee ordered and expected and how Stuart failed to carry out those orders. Also a good map on page 307 of the route Lee wanted Stuart to take through Sheperdstown, the alternate route that he and Longstreet felt he could take if unopposed, and the fool route Stuart used.

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General Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
AoT II/1/3 (CSA)


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 Post subject: Re: Forrest or Stonewall
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Rather than comparing Prime Rib to Sirloin, you are trying to compare lobster with baked alaska. Two totally different command structures leading to two totally different objectives within their styles of fighting.

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Maj Gen Billy Ray Wagenseller
7th Savannah Brigade
2nd Division
III Corp
Army of Northern Virginia

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 Post subject: Re: Forrest or Stonewall
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:15 am 
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MajGen_Wagenseller wrote:
Rather than comparing Prime Rib to Sirloin, you are trying to compare lobster with baked alaska. Two totally different command structures leading to two totally different objectives within their styles of fighting.


Don't follow? Wasn't doing a comparison of command structures.

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Chatham Grays
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 Post subject: Re: Forrest or Stonewall
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:10 pm 
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General Whitehead <salute>

Perhaps the comment was in reference to the original "Forrest or Stonewall" slant to this thread. It seems to have diverted a bit from there.

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General Neal Hebert
Edward C. Walthall Division (2nd aka "Gator Alley")
II Corps, Army of the West
CSA Cabinet Secretary


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 Post subject: Re: Forrest or Stonewall
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:58 pm 
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Gentlemen <salute>

I don't know if this has been discussed before, however this caught my eye when reading General Longstreet's account of Gettysburg from "Manassass to Appomattox":

"At the opening of the fight, General Meade was with General Sickles discussing the feasibility of moving the Third Corps back to the line originally assigned for it, but the discussion was cut short by the opening of the Confederate battle. If that opening had been delayed thirty or forty minutes the corps would have been drawn back to the general line, and my first deployment would have enveloped Little Round Top and carried it before it could have been strongly manned, and General Meade would have drawn off to his line selected behind Pipe Creek. The point should have been that the battle was opened too soon."

Lots of blame has been layed over "dragging his feet", however General Longstreet claims the attack would have been a success had it been made 30 minutes or so later.

Highest regards,

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General Neal Hebert
Edward C. Walthall Division (2nd aka "Gator Alley")
II Corps, Army of the West
CSA Cabinet Secretary


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