American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)
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Maneuvers at full points poll
http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18637		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  pierred [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Maneuvers at full points poll
I would like to know whether the membership would prefer that maneuvers be a full points for scoring rather than the current 1/2.

I think that it is time to remove this restriction and allow players to mix up MP games etc.. This may clear up situations where you have problems finding players. I think this could help expand the circle of friends within the club.

If the membership is in favor I will make a proposal for Cabinet review.

Comments will be appreciated.

An additional question is whether you knew about the 1/2 points.
Author:  Blake [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maneuvers at full points poll
I think the bigger issue is - do points matter? My answer is NO.

Has anyone checked the DoR lately?

The AVERAGE Confederate player in the ANV has 723 OBD points! Enough for a Lt General star. The same with the AoG. The AotM and AoA actually have a situation where the AVERAGE member has over 800 points! Enough for full General status.

The AVERAGE CSA Member has about 789 points!

And those numbers exclude Kunz, Ludwig, McOmish and I as we are considered CSA "Staff." But we four combine for enough points to raise the entire CSA average way up over 800 points per member.

Essentially your average CSA member should be at the highest tier of points necessary for full General rank.

That will upset a few people that I believe points are useless. Sorry.

But whether we dish out more points or we dont... does it matter? We, as a Club, give out about 1,000 points or more a month to our Members just for being Members and doing admin work. Like our Federal government we have overspent and inflation is driving the value of points down the drain. Points dont help to retain members past their first few months (or maybe weeks) in the Club. After that its all about friendships. We need to build better bonds between members wherever and whenever possible.

Let's concentrate on either re-structuring the entire rank and point system to make it meaningful again or just leave it alone and admit that we've matured as a Club past the point where points and rank matter. No matter what course you take it will upset a fraction of the Club. Let sleeping dogs lie? Especially when the dogs could care less anyways.


Remember my comments will be appreciated :mrgreen:
Author:  Deano [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maneuvers at full points poll
Blake wrote:
its all about friendships. We need to build better bonds between members wherever and whenever possible.


I cannot agree with you more about friendships!

But I would absolutely hate to see a battle against the opposing Army valued the same as a contest with a member of my own Army!

That doesn't make sense to me!

If points don't matter to most members maybe tournments or challenges or battle ribbons do. I see no point in valuing a battle the same as a maneuver. Changing that would change the very nature of our club!

Please lets not go there!

Most Respectfully, :D

Deano
Author:  Neal Hebert [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maneuvers at full points poll
General Martin <salute>

Deano, my compliments!

I agree. I didn't join the CSA to fight other Confederate officers, although maneuvers can be important in developing esprit de corps and getting junior officers integrated that are fairly new to gaming. If I've been around 10 years and have 10,000 points, who cares?

Highest regards,
Author:  Blake [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maneuvers at full points poll
Fighting fellow Army Members is actually alot of fun (not to imply Deano or Neal meant it wasnt). But it helps to build intra-army friendships and bonds. How do you think Neal and I met? :wink:
Author:  nelmsm [ Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maneuvers at full points poll
Blake wrote:
How do you think Neal and I met? :wink:


Oh, is that a straight line begging for comments. :lol:
Author:  John Ferry [ Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maneuvers at full points poll
I've got one, funny as heck, but it would probly get me kicked out!
JD Ferry
2lt 2/20th Corps
Author:  KWhitehead [ Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maneuvers at full points poll
I am here to play not to collect points so it isn't a real important thing to me. I personally think everyone should try to play the game as the other side occasionally. It is the only way to get a perspective of the strengths and weaknesses of the enemy forces. It is also a nice change from the routine. And, for Rebel players, a chance to use some good artillery.
Author:  John Ferry [ Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maneuvers at full points poll
:?: This might be an administrative nightmare, but I have a suggestion that might be adopted in some form. Players could have an association with an army on the other side, and when they are involved in a battle as a galvanized reb, for instance, they could earn "brevet" points with that army, which would not as much count for seniority etc with the rebel army, and not at all with their union affiliation.
Brevet rank and promotions were a big thing during the ACW, as we all know. Custer going from General to LTC is the most well known supposed "demotion" after the war, but he just went back to his regular army rank.
Think about using brevets in some fashion.
In the short time I have been with the club I have seen several instances where playtime has been delayed because I can't find a combative rebel.
J D Ferry
2lt 2/20th Corps
Author:  Ernie Sands [ Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maneuvers at full points poll
There should be some structure to the game playing, otherwise we get to be a "ladder" club and that is not what we are.

Role playing is an element of the club that waxes and wanes. Sometimes we have a lot of it and sometimes it seems to fade into the background. Sometimes it is in the email exchanges between opponents; sometimes it happens in the forums. Quite often it is very entertaining.

Points are only as important as the gives to that aspect. The ranks are part of the club structure and do have a place in keeping the club running smoothly.

So, I think we should keep the differentiation between BATTLES and MANEUVERS. Some time ago, the club started to allow games counting as battles for playing the opposite side vs an opposite opponent, i.e. a Union playing as a Reb vs a Reb playing the Union. This opened up a whole new aspect to the gaming and was an excellent example of keeping the interest level for playing at a higher level.
Author:  pierred [ Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maneuvers at full points poll
I was inclining more to MP games and mixes to be a full points. I referenced maneuvers because the rules for MP games used it for scoring.

I would leave the maneuver game as is but would see positives in a change for MP game points. These are more difficult to organize and to find players.

The way we give points in games, to winners and losers and for admin work makes it hard for someone to claim he is the best. It can never be counted as a ladder which basically means the guy on top is the best.

I don't see the point totals reflecting great wargaming skill although you should be wary. More that the person is active in the club and has experience.

I will start a different poll to reflect the points change to MP games only.
Author:  CSAJG1136 [ Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maneuvers at full points poll
maybe they should be full for junior officers
Author:  tony best [ Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maneuvers at full points poll
I am totally in support of discarding the maneuver option. We want to encourage BATTLES not just Army vs Army battles. At various times Army membership has ebbed and flowed(believe it or not at one time there was a shortage of Union players!). Meeting accross the Battle field makes for great friendships and if your friend is of the same Army so much the better!!

Please encourage play by voting against half point battles. Its ONE club after all.
Author:  dukemat [ Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maneuvers at full points poll
I enjoy playing both sides............its interesting to see a battle from the other side.

I have played Union opponents who refuse to play the Southern side against me..........don't really understand that.

You can learn allot playing both sides...........in my humble opinion.
Author:  mihalik [ Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maneuvers at full points poll
While I don't care much about the points personally, I like the idea of promotions based on points, especially for newer members.

Like some others who commented, I most appreciate the fellow club members I have met on line and in person (at Tillercons).

A problem I discovered early on was that I became much better acquainted with my Yank opponents than with my fellow rebs!!! That is the primary reason I voted yes on making maneuvers the equal of battles.

Some friends and I (not all club members) are going to this.

http://www.gettysburgreenactment.com/

Prior to that, on July 2, I will meet with my friend (through the club) Kelly Ross there.

If some others of you plan to be at Gettysburg around that time, maybe we could get together for dinner or something. Maybe even tour the battlefield together.

Too bad the ticket for just one day costs as much as a new game though.
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