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 Post subject: 53rd Ohio at Shiloh or "a F Quality Regiment??? "
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 4:24 pm
Posts: 14
Hello Gents,

I'm just starting up a Shiloh Battle in the Lt's Cup and I noticed the 53rd Ohio as a "F" Quality troop. I've never seen one before so I was compelled to look it up = )


http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/civil_war_series/22/sec5.htm


Lt Lifford,
6th Artillery, 2nd Div, XVI Corp, AoT


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 Post subject: Re: 53rd Ohio at Shiloh or "a F Quality Regiment??? "
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:17 pm 
Yeah, the 53rd Ohio gets a bad rating in this one for sure. The men weren't really to blame as their colonel really lost his nerve. In his defense he was one of the first to start telling Sherman that the Rebs were nearby. On the 5th he sent messages to Sherman - who foolishly ignored him and told him to shutup - the Rebs were in Corinth!

The 53rd Ohio pops up again in the Atlanta Games as a "C" regiment.


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 Post subject: Re: 53rd Ohio at Shiloh or "a F Quality Regiment??? "
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:36 am
Posts: 108
Location: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
That is preposterous!!

No Ohio unit should ever be rated "F"!!

What shananigans...

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Brigadier General Kevin Koch
2/2/VI
AotS


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 Post subject: Re: 53rd Ohio at Shiloh or "a F Quality Regiment??? "
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:09 pm 
Koch46 wrote:
That is preposterous!!

No Ohio unit should ever be rated "F"!!

What shananigans...


Please... Ohio troops... Illinois troops are the finest in the Midwest! :mrgreen:

Give me a regiment of Chicagoans!


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 Post subject: Re: 53rd Ohio at Shiloh or "a F Quality Regiment??? "
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:48 am
Posts: 332
Location: Las Cruces, NM USA
I have always been mystified by some of the ratings I see in the HPS campaign series. It seems that by 1863, troops should be seasoned, yet Gettysburg has a bundle of D's and E's for the Union.

Are the units rated by the battle or the overall war?

Lt. General Elkin
XVIth Corp commander
AotT

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 Post subject: Re: 53rd Ohio at Shiloh or "a F Quality Regiment??? "
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:55 pm 
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The 53rd Ohio Infantry was organized at Jackson, Ohio beginning September 3rd, 1861 and mustered in February 11th, 1862. It was ordered to Paducah, Ky., February 16th and moved from Paducah to Savannah, Tenn., March 6–10th, becoming part of the Third Brigade of Sherman's Fifth Division. As such it was pesent in the division's river expedition to Yellow Creek, Miss., which was aborted due to heavy rains and rising waters, and resulted in the occupation of Pittsburg Landing, Tenn., March 14–17. Some sources credit the 53rd with taking part in Sherman's subsequent expedition to Eastport, Mississippi, April 1st-2nd, but the Official Records do not bear this out. The unit's first real combat action was the Battle of Shiloh, Tenn., April 6–7.

The 53rd Ohio had thus barely been in service a total of 55 days with no combat experience before being slammed by Cleburne's troops in the Rea Field on the morning of April 6th. But even then the regiment managed to initially put up something of a creditable defense until its Colonel, Jesse Appler, not for the last time that day, apparently lost his nerve and cried out, "Retreat, and save yourselves!"

Based solely upon that given above, it would seem that the regiment's "F" rating is due more to Appler than to the character of the men. But then, how can one legitimately separate the two when deciding upon a morale value for it in a simulation? It is a situation wherein an erstwhile regiment of untested men were unfortunately saddled with a the worst sort of a leader.

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Commander, Army of the Shenandoah
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 Post subject: Re: 53rd Ohio at Shiloh or "a F Quality Regiment??? "
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:43 pm 
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Unit ratings are the toughest part of designing a new game. I built a database that will give me a numerical rating (zero to approximately 150 for the entire war) but then you have to bend that rating to the time frame you are working with. Comparing Shiloh with Gettysburg or Overland is like comparing Apple(r)s to Oranges. A unit which is rated "F" at Shiloh would be rated about "Z" at Gettysburg if it were to time travel those 15 months and show up in Pennsylvania. This concept is understandable in real life terms. A unit which knew the basic movements and formations, had brave leaders, and stalwart men, would be maybe rated "B" at Shiloh, but a unit with that level of ability would have been lost at Gettysburg, with an "E" rating at best. Unit ratings are relative to the era you are working with.
The Shiloh designer could have made the 53rd an "E" rated unit but then had Col Appler as a "F" leader in that brigade. That might have made his presence known in a subtler way. When it comes to basket-case leaders I automatically think of Col Christian, a brigade commander in Hooker's Corps at Antietam, who also showed the white feather early and often, but his brigade was able to carry on without him. There you have the quandary of whether to obey an unlawful order. The 53rd was green with no experience with what was the "norm" in combat, so when ol' Jesse said "run" most of the boys figured he knew what he was doing. At Antietam Christian's men laughed at him.
Quality can degrade over time, also. If you read the Overland article in Blake's "Between the Sheets" publication, you will see that by Cold Harbor Union units no longer displayed the elan that had been their hallmark for so long.
I'm sorry, what? Lines, not sheets? Oh, I'm sorry Mr. B. :mrgreen:
Seriously it was a good article that puts our new game in context. Well done.
Other examples of questionable quality on one side or the other, and sometimes both sides, are the Confederate Army at Nashville, and/or parts of both armies at Cedar Creek, showing the best and worst behavior all in a single day.
John Ferry
Maj 2/20th Corps


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 Post subject: Re: 53rd Ohio at Shiloh or "a F Quality Regiment??? "
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:07 pm 
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Location: Balgonie, Saskatchewan, Canada
I'm sure the 53rd Ohio were brave men. It was probably the sight of bearded and disorderly Southerners in little mobs appearing out of the bushes, or maybe the turn of the century muskets they were carrying, or perhaps it was the lack of shoes and ratty garments of their opposites in the field that scared them. Or, maybe there was a thundercloud burst or the sound of a tree falling in the forest that caused them to run for their lives.

...In fairness, there were many many brave Yankees and Union officers who proved their mettle that day. Just not the 53rd.

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Western Theater
Confederate States of America

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 Post subject: Re: 53rd Ohio at Shiloh or "a F Quality Regiment??? "
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:53 pm 
Let's not forget Gideon Pillow hiding behind a tree at Stones River.

Although, really, didn't everyone in Breckinridge's Division wish they were hiding behind a tree when Bragg ordered them to make an impossible attack? Maybe Pillow was just the smartest.


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 Post subject: Re: 53rd Ohio at Shiloh or "a F Quality Regiment??? "
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:05 am 
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Location: Balgonie, Saskatchewan, Canada
If we want to know more about Confederate Generals who turn tail, we know who to talk to.

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Colonel Lane

Commanding Officer
Western Theater
Confederate States of America

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 Post subject: Re: 53rd Ohio at Shiloh or "a F Quality Regiment??? "
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:53 pm 
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Quote:
If we want to know more about Confederate Generals who turn tail, we know who to talk to.


Ohhhh! "snap!" :shock:

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Brigadier General Kevin Koch
2/2/VI
AotS


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 Post subject: Re: 53rd Ohio at Shiloh or "a F Quality Regiment??? "
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:07 am 
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At Shiloh, my g-grandfather's unit, the 13th Tennessee Infantry, overran the camp of the 53rd Ohio, and then overran Waterhouse's Battery which was deployed on a hill just to the rear of that place. But as was said earlier, their Colonel had already panicked and so did the 53rd Ohio.

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> 3nd Brigade, Edward C. Walthall Division (2nd)
> II Corps, Army of the West
> "Gator Alley"

Laissez Les Bons Temps Rouler !!!


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 Post subject: Re: 53rd Ohio at Shiloh or "a F Quality Regiment??? "
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:21 pm 
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RobertWebb wrote:
At Shiloh, my g-grandfather's unit, the 13th Tennessee Infantry, overran the camp of the 53rd Ohio, and then overran Waterhouse's Battery which was deployed on a hill just to the rear of that place. But as was said earlier, their Colonel had already panicked and so did the 53rd Ohio.


That's pretty cool that you have a family link there. Have you been to Shiloh? I toured the Shiloh battlefield about 20 years ago but I didn't know much about the battle so I just "skimmed" it ..... I missed a good opportunity

In my game the 53rd Ohio has run quite far to the rear and is stubbornly not rallying. Stacked with the Division Commander they have a 1 in 6 chance of rallying I think so I'm assuming that they are done for a long time. Darn you Col Appler! ^ ^


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 Post subject: Re: 53rd Ohio at Shiloh or "a F Quality Regiment??? "
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:09 pm 
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Location: Pineville, LA
D. Lifford wrote:
RobertWebb wrote:
At Shiloh, my g-grandfather's unit, the 13th Tennessee Infantry, overran the camp of the 53rd Ohio, and then overran Waterhouse's Battery which was deployed on a hill just to the rear of that place. But as was said earlier, their Colonel had already panicked and so did the 53rd Ohio.


That's pretty cool that you have a family link there. Have you been to Shiloh? I toured the Shiloh battlefield about 20 years ago but I didn't know much about the battle so I just "skimmed" it ..... I missed a good opportunity

In my game the 53rd Ohio has run quite far to the rear and is stubbornly not rallying. Stacked with the Division Commander they have a 1 in 6 chance of rallying I think so I'm assuming that they are done for a long time. Darn you Col Appler! ^ ^



I grew up about an hour's drive from there (Grand Junction). Used to play on the cannon when I was a kid. We went there on family outings quite often. I have probably been over every inch of the battlefield.

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Brigadier General Robert Webb
> 3nd Brigade, Edward C. Walthall Division (2nd)
> II Corps, Army of the West
> "Gator Alley"

Laissez Les Bons Temps Rouler !!!


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