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HPS/JTS ACW series LOS Rules Need to be Improved
http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19690		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  cameronm [ Wed May 28, 2014 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  HPS/JTS ACW series LOS Rules Need to be Improved
In my view the LOS rules in the HPS/JTS ACW series could be improved. The ability to see a unit in woods some 70 hexes away would in real life would be difficult. The current rules make it impossible to observe the enemy without the observing unit also being seen, plus it also makes ambush difficult. Would it not be prudent to change the rules to give a higher degree of LOS realism? An example would be that a unit (in line formation) in woods could not be seen until a enemy unit was within four hexes (500 yards), however if the unit changed formation or moved in the woods then it could be seen at eight hexes away (1000 yards). These values would change in the winter months as the cover provide by woods is somewhat less. Your thought Gents :!:
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Thu May 29, 2014 7:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS/JTS ACW series LOS Rules Need to be Improved
Yes a higher degree of LOS realism and stronger FoW would be nice.
Currently I don't have a clue whether the terrain plays a role at all in what is show to the player.
I have the feeling that especially the area just below the maximum view range were the player at best sees a question mark on the map is too small.
Author:  John Ferry [ Thu May 29, 2014 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS/JTS ACW series LOS Rules Need to be Improved
You are asking for something beyond the range of what modifications one can do in the pdt, so the suggestion is moot. It is an engine change, so the issue should be addressed to HPSSIMS. Hate to be a killjoy, but only about 5% of the things I asked for as a designer received favorable action.
John Ferry
Overland co-designer
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Thu May 29, 2014 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS/JTS ACW series LOS Rules Need to be Improved
Thanks for the insight.

You as designer can surely answer this, what is usually taken as base for the view range?
Seem to me that the high ranges, not only in the CW series but also in the Napoleonic series seem to be based on using some form of binoculars or telescope, I wonder how common that was in an officers hand.
Author:  John Ferry [ Thu May 29, 2014 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS/JTS ACW series LOS Rules Need to be Improved
The max is 70 hexes (5 miles) and I don't think you can make it farther than that in a pdt. (I tried)
I don't have any data to back it up but I would bet that most all field officers, and staff officers, had a telescope or a set of binoculars. Of course they weren't as good as what we have today, but they were good enough to pick out masses of men at five miles. Before Overland, Lee's lookouts on Clark's Mtn picked up the night movement of the Yankee columns heading east by noting the campfires flicker as ranks of men passed in front of them. Distance was over five miles. Kind of how we find planets in other solar systems these days...
My favorite anecdote about things far, far, away is from Custer's last campaign. His scouts took him to a promontory called the Crow's Nest and showed him the huge Indian camp ten or twelve miles away. Custer and his staff, with their scopes and binos could not make it out, while the Indians saw it with the naked eye. "Look for little crawling worms," they said. The white guys couldn't make it out, and would not take a redskin's word for it. And the rest is history.

John Ferry
Overland Designer
Author:  RichWalker [ Sat May 31, 2014 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS/JTS ACW series LOS Rules Need to be Improved
One thing I would add, the LOS and movement, etc... can be affected if a weather .pdt is used.

Rich W.
Author:  John Ferry [ Sat May 31, 2014 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS/JTS ACW series LOS Rules Need to be Improved
All of the Overland pdts extensively use the historical weather, both from Mine Run timeframe, and Overland itself. It would have been cool if we could have done it for the Atlanta game, and others. As far as I know, with weather you can shorten the LOS from 70 hexes, but you can't make it farther. Correct?
John Ferry
Overland co-designer
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS/JTS ACW series LOS Rules Need to be Improved
Wasn't the weather feature introduce with "Campaign Atlanta"?

The guys from the Old Banshee team did weather versions of the stock scenarios for 2 games(Ozark & Gettysburg), maybe they release more for the rest of the missing.
Author:  Joe Meyer [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS/JTS ACW series LOS Rules Need to be Improved
On several occasions I've had instances of what I refer to as tripping up on a "masked position." It usually involves moving towards some forest hexes while in the open and then halting and finishing the move without discovery of an enemy unit or units within those woods nearby. Then, activating the next phase, the formerly hidden units appear and blast away at me. This has happened to me when I've had mounted cavalry stopping within a two-hex, frontal range from the hidden, forest hex enemy. I'm not certain what causes this, as I thought that mounted cavalry could make those detections possible. Has anyone else experienced this?
Author:  R. Sickbert [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS/JTS ACW series LOS Rules Need to be Improved
Just yesterday I had infantry move and then change facing and at that point an unseen unit "decloaked" a couple of hexes away and performed auto defensive fire.

Another time I moved into a previously unobserved open area with mounted cavalry and came within two hexes of an "unknown"unit. That would be fine, except the unknown unit was out in the open several hexes away until the cavalry saw the "?Unknown" pop up when two hexes away.

Would this be considered tripping up on a "masked position" as well?
Author:  nsimms [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS/JTS ACW series LOS Rules Need to be Improved
What I've found is that mounted cavalry skirmishers work as normal when the mounted cavalry unit is stationary and an opponent's unit moves within their range. However, when the mounted cavalry unit itself is moving, they only see into the hexes directly ahead of them (actually, it is two hexes dead head of them) and do not see what are in the two hexes on each side that are within their normal range of control. When I approach an area that I suspect might contain enemy units, I have to pause my cavalry and use movement points to turn them from side to side in order to see all the hexes ahead.
Author:  CSAJG1136 [ Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS/JTS ACW series LOS Rules Need to be Improved
Never thought of that Ned. Thanks.
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