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Captured Guns Can Fire - Enemy Can't (No Ammo)
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Author:  D. Hampel [ Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Captured Guns Can Fire - Enemy Can't (No Ammo)
I was playing a RBC scenario when I captured some Reb guns. My opponent pointed out that he was unable to use the guns but when I captured them I was able to fire them back on the Rebs. Didn't seem right that if the guns were out of ammo that I would magically be able to fire them on their owners when they had no ammo to fire them on my troops.

I would have to agree with my opponent that if the enemy is out of ammo that you shouldn't be able to fire their captured guns just because you still have ammunition left. This is especially in this case as my current guns/ammo are across a ridge and forest and are not even close to the captured ones I took with no ammo. To add insult to injury, the captured guns inflicted high casualties while in automatic defensive fire and during my turn.

Game: Campaign Chickamauga
Scenario: 063_Missionary Ridge, Nov. 25th, 1863

Not sure if this was addressed in future game releases/updates but I didn't recognize this before. This is the first scenario I've played h2h with Chickamauga.

Question: Should you only be able to fire captured guns while your opponent still has ammunition or should it be until your ammunition runs out (and this example occurs)?

Lt. Col. Derek Hampel
Fifth Infantry Brigade
Second Div., XV Corps
Army of the Tennessee
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Captured Guns Can Fire - Enemy Can't (No Ammo)
Problem is that currently only the ammo level of the side that has the guns matters, unless we get supply wagons specifically for artillery so we could do some Low Ammo/No Ammo flags to the artillery units I doubt there is a way to handle.
Maybe some houserules could help here?
Author:  KWhitehead [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Captured Guns Can Fire - Enemy Can't (No Ammo)
It is a rather rare situation and usually it is the opposite problem. Firing captured guns for the Rebel player is usually a waste of good ammo. While it would be nice to have such detail simulation but there are more pressing things missing like artillery ammo wagons and tracking ammo by type and gun.
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Captured Guns Can Fire - Enemy Can't (No Ammo)
But isn't also ammo capture when the Confederates capture union guns?
Author:  Ernie Sands [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Captured Guns Can Fire - Enemy Can't (No Ammo)
You can TURN OFF artillery capture and eliminate the problem. :mrgreen:
Author:  Robert [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Captured Guns Can Fire - Enemy Can't (No Ammo)
Quote:
You can TURN OFF artillery capture and eliminate the problem.


Here here!
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Captured Guns Can Fire - Enemy Can't (No Ammo)
And then a short capture of the guns would take them out for the rest of the battle.
How would 1st Bull Run look with this?
Author:  KWhitehead [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Captured Guns Can Fire - Enemy Can't (No Ammo)
C. Hecht wrote:
And then a short capture of the guns would take them out for the rest of the battle.
How would 1st Bull Run look with this?

A lot of people prefer the old rule because the guns are immediately captured and credited to victory conditions. The optional rules allow you to turn the guns on the enemy and for the enemy to recapture them getting their VP back. The downside is you have to be able to garrison the guns until the end of the game to get the VP. Which causes players in games that the scenarios tend to have an ebb and flow to bring up guns and shoot the captured guns out of existence. Which for the Rebels is a problem since they seldom can afford to waste ammo doing this.
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Captured Guns Can Fire - Enemy Can't (No Ammo)
Well personally if the VPs are all my opponent is worried about I wouldn't mind to credit the full VP to him or me depending on whether he or me has the guns clearly the respective area of control.
Author:  D. Hampel [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Captured Guns Can Fire - Enemy Can't (No Ammo)
I guess the old rules are simpler but it is nice to capture the enemies guns and turn them on them (when there is still ammo). Another flaw with this setting is that nearly any unit can hold the guns for points and use. I sometimes leave my officer back to hold the guns and amazingly he can single handedly fire a batter of 4 Rebel guns (or maybe it's him and his staff?). I do like the fact that you need to hold the guns to gain the VP's and can lose them by leaving or losing the guns back to the enemy (which he can us again if they are not spiked). The only thing that I would have to question is whether a brigade would even know how to fire the captured guns?

I guess it's really a mixed bag. There are pro and cons for both settings and there will always be some sort of acceptation or anomaly as trying to program and cover any possible scenario would be nearly impossible. I believe that the caissons that move the artillery are carrying the ammo and would justify the use of the enemy guns but if they are out of ammo I don't agree that you should be able to fire the enemy's guns. I think that if the enemy still has ammo you should be able to fire the captured guns or have a friendly artillery unit in the same hex to supply the captured guns. That would be my proposed solution.

Lt. Col. Derek Hampel
Fifth Infantry Brigade
Second Div., XV Corps
Army of the Tennessee
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