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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:28 pm 
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BG Robert Frost
Army of Cumberland


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:42 pm 
Roberts comments about not modeling phsyical fatigue got me thinking. Perhaps in future titles a second fatigue factor can be added so that we would have:

Battle fatigue / mental fatigue (Call it "Stess?")

and

Physical fatigue to depict actual marching and countermarching.

I am currently reading Gordon Rhea's excellent 4th book in his study of the overland campaign "Cold Harbor" and the constant day and night marches of the various Union corps had a very profound impact on their ability to function physically during the battles. He has stories from men who told of people sleep walking and running into trees or stumps on the side of the road they were so out of it, etc.

Perhaps a battle stress level to depict fire results as we currently have, and a physical fatigue level to depict tired legs, etc (lose one movement point per X number of fatigue increase?) could vastly improve things. No more marching a corps from one side of the map to the other at full speed and attacking right away at full strength.

The factors could work together or independently. For insance, inexperienced or low quality units might suffer more than high quality or veteran units...

Just some thoughts from someone who knows very little but dreams big. :)

Regards,
Captain Alan Lynn
3rd Battery "Jacksonville Greys"
4th Div, II Corps, AoA
God bless <><


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:07 pm 
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While veterans would normally conserve ammo until effective range, wouldn't it make sense for poorly trained and inexperienced units to waste ammo at long range (ie. 4-5 hexes)?

To some extent, I prefer the way Age of Rifles handled fatigue - units that moved about too quickly would build up fatigue, and also every time a unit fired it would suffer some fatigue. Unfortunately, in the BG/HPS system a unit can march about non-stop at full speed and fire as much as it likes without getting any fatigue except through return fire or melee. A better fatigue system - let alone a more sophisticated disruption system - would be a significant improvement and might also slow down the pace of the battle and reduce overall losses, since units would be forced to rest otherwise they'd often be worn out just by marching and brittle even by the time they've reached the front line after a long march. One of the main purposes of fatigue seems to be to deter players from keeping units in the front line for too long without giving them time to rest & recuperate.

Regarding supply, I'd probably recommend adding in more supply wagons - perhaps twice as many as in the standard scenarios, maybe even more than this - but increasing the ammo depletion levels to 10% or even 15%. This would make it far more important for players to ensure that the supply wagons were able to get where they were most needed. On a real battlefield, I suspect there must have been plenty of occasions when troops in one sector of the line ran out of ammo, but there were still adequate supplies elsewhere. So making this sort of adjustment seems logical.

Col. Rich White
3 Brig. Phantom Cav Div
III Corps ANV


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:47 am 
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 11:25 am
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Gentlemen,

I agree that a 'physical fatigue' feature would add to the realism of the games. I am very prone to marching men all over that map at night, espcecially if their fatigue is low. (Opponents beware!) Although superhuman feats can and do show up in war (as in other aspects of life), it really shouldn't be possible to march every unit under your control for 24-48 hours non-stop with no ill effects.


Your humble servant,
LGen 'Dee Dubya' Mallory

David W. Mallory
ACW - Lieutenant General, First ('Grey Line') Corps, AotM
CCC - Corporal, Georgia Volunteers, Southern Regional Deaprtment, Colonial American Army


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:00 am 
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I think in some of the HPS modern games units that move at night gain fatigue, so maybe that can be carried over into the earlier games? But that still wouldn't be as good as the AoR system where units that moved "beyond the green" would automatically accumulate fatigue, even in daytime. That was a good system for representing forced marching and encouraging players to think about the consequences of rushing about at top speed.

Col. Rich White
3 Brig. Phantom Cav Div
III Corps ANV


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:52 am
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For a lot of interesting information pertaining to logistics I
recommend "Plowshares into Swords", by Frank Vandiver. It is a
biography of Josiah Gorgas, the Confederate Chief of Ordnance, but
contains a lot of information pertaining to the procurement of arms
and ammunition. It says Gorgas tried to maintain an ammunition supply
of 140 rounds/man in each of the armies. The pre-war ordnance manual prescribed 200 rounds/man. It also said that returns of ordnance officers after 1st Manassas indicated an expenditure of 19-26 rounds/man. Lots of other useful information as well.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA


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