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 Post subject: Campaign endings
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 1:45 pm
Posts: 164
Location: USA
I have twice reached major battles in campaigns after 1 or 2 previous battles and when a termination bid was accepted in that major battle the campaign ended. Is this the normal? Has anyone played maybe 5 or 6 small games before one came along that involved all of both armies?

Marschal Jonathan Thayer
Comte de Vienne
1eme/1er Chasseur a' Pied
Vieille Garde
10/III
Armee du Nord

Lt Col
Old North State Guard
2/3/III
Army of Northern Virginia


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2001 12:13 am
Posts: 335
Location: USA
It depends on the game you are playing. I'm most familiar with the branching in Ozark, but if one side or the other has won the early battles heavily enough, it will kick to a terminal condition. For instance, if the Union picks up a major win at McDowell in Ozark, that's it...

I guess the rule of thumb is, when in doubt, don't concede the major [:)]

Col. Gary McClellan
1st Division, XXIII Corps
AoO,USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 1:45 pm
Posts: 164
Location: USA
I accepted a minor victory and I think our first game was a draw and the campaign ended with a draw. I guess once you reach a battle that involves both full armies that is the climax of the campaign and you must fight it out. I just assumed that with so many scenarios a campaign would involve more than two battles regardless of the outcomes.

Marschal Jonathan Thayer
Comte de Vienne
1eme/1er Chasseur a' Pied
Vieille Garde
10/III
Armee du Nord

Lt Col
Old North State Guard
2/3/III
Army of Northern Virginia


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:03 pm 
I'm the opponent in the campaign mentioned. I think the first battle ended as a reb minor, second as a union minor and third/final as a reb minor. The final victory screen showed the campaign as an overall draw.

BGen, 2/XIX/AoS


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:59 pm 
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Posts: 335
Location: USA
If I may ask, which game was it?

Col. Gary McClellan
1st Division, XXIII Corps
AoO,USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:27 pm 
HPS Getty. I get the impression it's a flat 3 games no matter what. I may be wrong of course.

BGen, 2/XIX/AoS


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2001 12:13 am
Posts: 335
Location: USA
Hm, the branching in the campaign file is pretty complex, but by the looks of things, I'd say that ending after 3-4 battles looks to be pretty common. There may be a way to get it to go longer, but I can't see it right now.

BTW, look at it in the campaign editor, lots there to learn from [:D]

Col. Gary McClellan
1st Division, XXIII Corps
AoO,USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 4:19 am
Posts: 25
Location: USA
I think in HPS Gettysburg the campaign can end quickly if the Confederates do not choose to invade Pennsylvania. When the Confederates instead opt to attack near Bull Run, that battle tends to end the campaign. I have played the campaign twice and each one has lasted at least 5 scenarios. I am in the major clash with both entire armies present now, depending on the outcome there may be further scenarios.

Col. Rudy Zodda
4th "Wildcat Brigade"/Pickett's 2nd Division/ I Corps/ ANV
Regiment D'Artois/ Brigade Du Drucour/Troupes Royales


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:49 am 
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 11:25 am
Posts: 777
Location: USA
(NOTE: Even though the following reply is not about ACW games, it does reply to the topic and deals with HPS campaign games.)

Col. Thayer,

Rich Hamilton and I started a Southern campaign in Campaign 1776. Not knowing much about that war, I read a little about that campaign and found that the Americans lost most of their battles in the South, but used guerrilla tactics (I think that's an old-fashioned word for 'terrorism', but we won't go there) to harass the British and keep the fight going. Based on that, I figured my goal for the first battle would be to wear the British down as much as I could while taking as few casualties myself as possible. (Solid tactical advice anytime, right?) By simply abandoning the field, he would be able to take the two small geographic objectives and win a Minor Victory.

I planned a fighting withdrawal, and I thought I did a pretty good job -- especially with an engine I wasn't very familiar with and against such an august opponent. I slowly withdrew, taking advantage of terrain heights and longer fields of fire through a main clearing. My guns fired a couple of long-range shots each, then skedaddled so they would be saved for the next fight. I even was able to counter-attack on one flank and ZOC'ed one of his regiments. I had still maintained my lines and lost only two of my regiments to surround ZOC's, and those only because they had routed behind his lines.

Basically, even though I did almost everything right (as far as I could tell), his overwhelming numbers (his forces outnumbered mine by about 2-to-1) and better quality carried the day. (Okay, I DID learn a couple of things about the engine [:)]!) He won the battle clearly with a Major Victory. I wasn't concerned at all about a single loss, since I was able to escape with my guns.

Unfortunately, the campaign ended at that point! [xx(]

We're now engaged in the Saratoga campaign (a custom campaign for 1776), and Rich thinks it is designed to go more than one battle. (We'll see. I won't hold my breath until I see how badly he beats me [:D]!)


LGnen 'Dee Dubya' Mallory

David W. Mallory
ACW - Lieutenant General, First ('Grey Line') Corps, AotM
CCC - Corporal, Georgia Volunteers, Southern Regional Deaprtment, Colonial American Army


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 1:45 pm
Posts: 164
Location: USA
One thing that was mentioned in a previous post was "Don't quit" and I think that circles back around to the original problem. I think with Gettysburg you know just what forces you have and this leads to some reluctance to continue with a battle that looks to be going against you since you (at least as the Rebs) can ill afford to lose the equalvalent of a couple of divisions and expect to compete in the next battle. I did that in a prior campaign. After several turns we were still at a draw but I was totally out of position with two corp on the field. Both were about to be engaged and my third corp would have only been able to support one of the two. So I offered my opponent a minor victory and the campaign ended. If I had known that I faced a do or die I would have fought on but I had hoped that any disadvantage I faced in the next fight as a result of my loss would not be as bad as the situation I was aready in.

Marschal Jonathan Thayer
Comte de Vienne
1eme/1er Chasseur a' Pied
Vieille Garde
10/III
Armee du Nord

Lt Col
Old North State Guard
2/3/III
Army of Northern Virginia


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:32 am
Posts: 1642
Location: USA
Don't put to much weight to the "Don't Quit" idea. Every scenario I have played in Campaign Gettysburg has been ended by a termination bit. Mostly because of how long some of the scenarios are. Once one side decides there is nothing to gain by fighting and wants to withdraw they usually end it with a termination. This is usually after the forces break contact since it is no advantage to the winning side to grant a termination until they know they won't be able to kill any more of their foe.

So far no campaign has ended due to early termination. The victory level affects the strategic choices but I haven't really seen that much affect on the choices.

Col. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
III Corps, AoM (CSA)


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