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 Post subject: Supply source and ammo supply
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 1:45 pm
Posts: 164
Location: USA
I would like to ask what function supply sources in the Peninsula Campaign serve. I hope they in some way create supply wagons. In reading previous posts I have read that most actual battle were mostly fire fights with little actual hand to hand. I agree with that based on reading accounts of battles. In playing the Peninsula Campaign with the low quality of units I am finding that successful melee attacks are pretty rare even if you can get undisrupted units in position to attack. So this lends itself to more realistic firefights. I am currently playing one of the large (300+ turn) games. It is late in the first day and I am running out of small arms ammunition. In looking over my forces that will arrive later I see that they have their own supply wagons but I don't see any unattached wagons listed.

Small arms ammo is always a problem for the Rebs with both HPS and Bg games. I agree that units fighting in line should run out but I just can't see an entire army running out. This is incredibly frustrating. I want to play the game and ammo supply for individual units should come into play but it should not effect strategic decisions. In one BG Gettysburg game I played there were 13 unsupplied regiments in the II Corp at the end of the first day with no supply available. On one other related note I think that perhaps the possibility of a unit running out of ammo should relate to fatigue. It makes no sence for a unit to fire it's first shot and become depleted which is what happened with 2 of my regiments.


Brgd General Jon Thayer
Old North State Divison
3/III
Army of Northern Virginia

jonathanthayer@bellsouth.net


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:00 am
Posts: 444
Location: USA
Gentlemen,

I realize that the ammo supply of each unit is a random number and they may run out quickly or not. This is to reflect how much ammo the unit was carrying before the battle started. However, I wish we had the capability to fully supply units befroe an attack, it is inconsievable that units would not load up with ammo before they knew they were going on the attack. Perhaps this is a feaure that can be added. A full supply button, may be this can be added as part of the action point system.

BG Joe Mishurda

Joe Mishurda, The Cast Iron Division
2nd Div. XXV Corp, AoJ


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:52 am
Posts: 951
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The explanation in the rules for units running out of ammo on the first volley is that a unit at Shiloh went to the front without any ammunition. I'm not going to say it didn't happen in other battles, but I have never heard of it. I have heard of bad ammo having an effect (Honey Springs) or wet ammo (Mill Springs) so maybe it is a catch-all. The solution to your ammo woes is go into the editor and modify the scenario by adding more wagons. By agreement with your opponent, of course. I haven't heard of many instances where lack of ammo was a major problem. Jackson's men at Second Manassas where they resorted to throwing rocks comes to mind. In "Plowshares into Swords" I read that Josiah Gorgas tried to maintain a supply of 140 rds/man in the major Confederate armies, but that was in 1864. I think the pre-war US Army manual called for 200 rds/man. In Paddy Griffith's book discussed in an earlier thread actual ammunition expenditures averaged 26 rounds/man at Gettysburg, according to Confederate Ordnance Dept estimates. He also says that at the same battle the Union army issued out 5,400,000 rounds, or about 60/man and that I Corps fired 86 rds/man. Anyway, it seems that ammunition expenditure wasn't as great as you would think, I suspect because few men shot at longer ranges. It certainly didn't threaten to exhaust the available supply.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:45 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2001 5:01 am
Posts: 564
Location: USA
Supply Source hexes prevent units that can trace a line of unbroken hexes to them from being isolated if the Isolation Rule is being used. This allows units in forts to be surrounded but not isolated. It has nothing to do with ammo for infantry or artillery.

MajGen Al 'Ambushed' Amos
3rd "Amos' Ambushers" Bde, Cavalry Division, XX Corps, AoC
The Union Forever! Huzzah!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:47 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 3:11 am
Posts: 311
Location: North Carolina
This is why I would like to see wagons on the map but with unlimited small arms ammo. Units will still run out of ammo, run low more often, but the army will not.

I'm just starting day 2 of the HPS historical battle, and with the admission I still have a lot to learn about HPS tactics, day 1 wasn't very successful in part because Heth/Pender don't have their wagons (though mainly b/c my opponent played well!). And since I run a sideline in running out of ammo (my troops think they're playing a FPS the way they run out! [:I]), I could either melee every turn or just sit and stare at the Yanks. And with the single-phase turn and auto DF, the effect of being "Low ammo" is practically the same as being out.

Maj Gen Sean Turner
3rd Cavalry Division, "Yankee Thrasher"
I Corps
Army of Alabama


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:00 am 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mihalik</i>
<br />...a unit at Shiloh went to the front without any ammunition. I'm not going to say it didn't happen in other battles, but I have never heard of it. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Antietam. I forget who it was, but part of IX crossed over with no ammo and had to go back.

Let's not forget this too is something of an abstraction representing usable ammo. The pouch may be full, but if it is sodden because an hour ago the Reg't waded through a marsh, or there was a downpour at dawn, or ...

Given that units often discharged their weapons after rain to see if their powder was dry enough suggests it happened often enough to be a factor.

Maj Gen Mike Kaulbars Image
3rd "Freiheit" Division
VIII/AoS
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