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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 343
Location: United Kingdom
As far as I am aware the south fought for states rights, Lincoln again as far as I have read bent if not broke every rule to keep the union together. Now could a southern state in this day and age if it wished, secede from the union?
As a man with Irish blood and an English heart I am curious.
All the best,


General
Frank (Old Banshee) Mullins,
Connaught Brigade,
XV Corps,
Army of the Tennessee.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 7:53 pm
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Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
<b> Now could a southern state in this day and age if it wished, secede from the union</b>

If you see secession from the Federal Government in the next 25-50 years (and I admit it is possible) it won't be along the old regional lines. In fact, I'd argue that the southwestern states would be FAR more likely to seceed than the old Confederate States...with the exception of Texas.

And of course if such states seceed it probbaly because they want a reunification with Mexico...

Ahh, irony.

[B)]

Brig. General Philip Roubaud
1/XX
AOC
USA


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:43 am 
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Could a state secede in this day and age? . . . No. We fought a whole war in this country back a few years which took care of that debate.

Sincerely,

Major Dwight McBride
1st Brigade ("The Regulars")
2nd Division/V Corps/AOP


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:46 am 
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Location: USA
The South HAS risen again, Check out recent Presidential races!! Because of population shifts South and West it is difficult for a contender to win without a Southern strategy of some sort.

Field Lt. Tony Best


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:51 am 
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Why no? The south signed under duress in these days of legal eagles is it not possible that it could be done trough the courts.
I read some where that it was proven that the Black hills were taken from the Souix and they went to court and won were offered a money settlement but refused it as they wanted the land back.
Also why the south west states?

Atb,

General
Frank (Old Banshee) Mullins,
Connaught Brigade,
XV Corps,
Army of the Tennessee.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:20 am 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by old banshee</i>
<br />Why no? The south signed under duress in these days of legal eagles is it not possible that it could be done trough the courts.
I read some where that it was proven that the Black hills were taken from the Souix and they went to court and won were offered a money settlement but refused it as they wanted the land back.
Also why the south west states?

Atb,

General
Frank (Old Banshee) Mullins,
Connaught Brigade,
XV Corps,
Army of the Tennessee.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

California - the land of fruits and nuts. [:o)] (I have a number of relatives from CA...) They have a large alien population who can't speak our language, a large "alternative lifestyle" population (higher percentage than the rest of the country), a large group of often uneducated complete idiots who think they know what is best for everyone else in the world (Hollywood), and generally just seem to view things differently (every "wierd" American food I've eaten had its origin in California, haha). Although Northern California seems to be more "normal" in comparison to the rest of the country. So perhaps only SOCAL would want to leave?

And there was that rumor before the last Pres. election that Texas would secede in John Kerry were elected... [;)]

And I know many of us in the rest of Florida would like to kick South Florida out of our state/country! Miami and area is like its own little world, hence why it is often refered to as Havana North, Little Cuba, etc.

Also, regarding the legalities of secession in the modern US, here is a good article I found that speaks to this question in pretty even terms:

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20041124.html

Regards,
Col. Alan Lynn
3rd Battery "Jacksonville Greys"
4th Div, II Corps, AoA
God bless <><
Signal Corps, Assistant Editor

"The only accurate news is well researched history."


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:41 pm 
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Location: USA
General Frank (Old Banshee) Mullins
What do you mean the south secede.....Why us northerners are the one's suffering from southern oppression. Look at when one can qualify the last Northern President (I'm not sure California counts as northern. And I am fairly sure I don't want to claim President Bush as northern, even if the family might be considered Washington insiders--and have that place in Maine.) Political power seems to have shifted, and we are now the oppressed (them dasterly Republicans seem increasingly in control).....ok, just depressed, at least economically.
Seriously, I doubt anyone would or could secede. Especially if it came to fighting for it. Talk in Alaska, once ran prettys strong...but it is only a pipe dream. Would I enjoy secesion from the current government---sure---but not likely to happen--technology would make such an event nearly impossible on similar terms.
As far as I have seen state rights is ebbs and flows with both parties and with the divisions of the country, just with differing agendas. So the call for State rights seems a battle that no one seems to desire.
MG Michael Laabs
3/III A of M


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:55 pm 
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General Mullins,

I'm with Major McBride on this one. The best chance any state ever had to secede (without the permission of the federal government) was prior to the civil war, when the legality of such a move was still in question.

Things changed entirely with the War. When all the military and diplomatic forces the Confederacy came up with couldn't force the matter, the authority of the federal government was sealed. It has continued to grow in the years since.

One author (I can't remember who now, but it is apt to be several) claimed the biggest legacy of the Civil War was the emerging power of the federal government -- even bigger, this author contended, than the freeing of the slaves.


Your humble servant,
Gen 'Dee Dubya' Mallory

David W. Mallory
ACW - General, Chief of the Armies, Confederate States of America & Cabinet Member
CCC - Sergeant, Georgia Volunteers, Southern Regional Deaprtment, Colonial American Army


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:13 am 
I doubt that secession as such will occur, but I would be surprised if this century does not see attempts at some sort of realignment of the political 'sub-units' of the US. The demographic,economic and cultural balkenization of the US will continue and probably accelerate over the next few decades. The forces pushing the various sections into other cultural and economic camps could well precipitate attempts at some form of independence from the other sections.

All of this is unlikely if the global economy continues to grow. But, if we have a depression on a scale experienced in the 1930's, the probability of it increases significantly.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:30 am 
Gentlemen,

Hawaii bears watching. A vocal minority of nativist groups has been clamoring many years for Hawaiian rights and outright independence, claiming that the kingdom was illegally seized in the 1890s, and that the vote for statehood was somehow illegitimate, probably because of the large number of non-native islanders involved. Almost every day for the three years I lived there (July 2002 – July 2005), point-counterpoint editorials in the local newspapers argued over what really happened in the 1890s, when local business interests owned by non-local businessmen overthrew the queen in a palace coup. Of course, in demanding a return of Hawaii to blood Hawaiians (How much blood? Do “toenail Hawaiiansâ€


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:59 pm 
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Location: USA
Gentlemen,

An interesting discussion. The article provided by Col. Lynn (http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20041124.html) makes for interesting reading. My take on the whole subject is that this issue was settle in the first week of July, 1863 when Grant took Vicksburg and Longstreet failed to take the little clump of trees at Gettysburg, though some may argue that it was decided with the Emancipation Proclamation which made the South's moral position indefensible. The Union is Now and Forever, One and Inseparable. No matter how many political differences we have from one region to another we, all Americans, are bound by a bond of blood. From Lexington Green to New Orleans, from Buena Vista to Chickamauga, from San Juan Hill to Chateau Thierry, from Pearl Harbor to Pusan, from Khe Sahn to Baghdad, the ideas embodied in the Constitution have been paid for with our dearest blood. These ties are too strong to sever now.

If you wish to see the dismemberment of political bonds on the North American continent, you will have to be content with watching Quebec secede (I wonder which Canadian province could be persuaded to join the Union? British Columbia and the Yukon perhaps, uniting Alaska with lower 48?), or perhaps one of the larger states like California or Texas splitting.


Col. Randy Hartwig
1/IX/AoO, USA


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:09 pm 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">all Americans, are bound by a bond of blood. From Lexington Green to New Orleans, from Buena Vista to Chickamauga, from San Juan Hill to Chateau Thierry, from Pearl Harbor to Pusan, from Khe Sahn to Baghdad, the ideas embodied in the Constitution have been paid for with our dearest blood. These ties are too strong to sever now. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Tell that to the billion or so people they will pour across our borders over the next 50 years. They could care less about all that blood.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:03 am 
Col. Hartwig,

While I get what your saying I wonder if thats true. As Stan pointed out immigrants are pouring into America daily, many illegally, and the landscape is changing both politically and socially. Just in my limited travels I see a polarization of our country not only politically but in class as well. I suppose its the old have's vs have nots argument. I am not saying we'll see some mass upheaval in the coming years but I certainly think there is a mixture brewing that, with the right spark, could prove explosive.

Maj.Gen. Mike Smith
Smith's Brigade
Smith's Division
Carroll's Corps
Army of Georgia
[url="http://convolutedmuse.blogspot.com//"]Convoluted Muse[/url]

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:35 am 
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Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
<b>And there was that rumor before the last Pres. election that Texas would secede in John Kerry were elected...</b>

Oh if only that were true. I would have voted for Kerry if I had known that. If Texas goes, I do believe the rest of the country would send it a giant basket of flowers and wave it good-bye as it floated away down the Gulf of Mexico...


[:X][:p][:D][8D][:I][8)]


Brig. General Philip Roubaud
1/XX
AOC
USA


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2001 12:13 am
Posts: 335
Location: USA
There is that old series of TV Commercials

"Texas, it's like a whole nother country..."

The rest of us respond

"We can only wish!"

Heh, I better be careful, I live 6 miles from Texas, and one of my churches is there.

Brig. General Gary McClellan
1st Division, XXIII Corps
AoO,USA


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