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 Post subject: FEEDBACK: Campaign Antietam - 1st Bull Run(Sc. 103)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:24 pm
Posts: 433
Location: Terra
Good day gentlemen,
Just finished scenario 103 "Bull Run, July 21st, 1861 (Sectional)"(that is the same as 009 1BR_Bull Run V.7 but with weather) from "Campaign Antietam" and it went quit good for me what that made me wonder as I didn't expect this on my first game to be the case.
After it I took a look and saw that a lot things played out well but still I was unsure why the Confederate had not engage me sooner, I took a look at the releases schedule for them and that looks a bit strange and I can't make sense out of it.
Here are the release times for (002 1st BR Historical) for Rebels:
5:00AM Bonham's Bde
6:00AM Evans' Bde
6:20AM Longstreet's Bde
6:40AM A.O.P. Artillery
6:40AM Early's Bde
7:00AM Supply Wagon
7:40AM Jackson's Bde
6:40AM Cocke's Bde
7:40AM Jones' Bde
8:00AM Supply Wagon
8:00AM Unattached
8:00AM Bartow's Bde
8:00AM Unattached
8:20AM Smith's Bde
9:00AM Supply Wagon
10:00AM Bee's Bde
11:00AM A of the Shenandoah
11:00AM A of the Potomac
11:00AM Ewell's Bde
11:00AM Rogers' Btty
11:00AM Rogers' Btty
11:20AM Holmes' Bde

V7(009 1BR_Bull Run V.7) uses the same but has some missing releases but these for reasons:
6:20AM Longstreet's Bde(Except for 1 battery Longstreet is not fixed from start)
11:00AM A of the Shenandoah(Not fixed from start)
11:00AM A of the Potomac(Not fixed from start)

Note sure about the other releases but what I find strange are the releases of the units that started to came first to the battle at Mathews Hill and later Henry Hill.
So far my sources say that Bee's Bde and close behind Bartow's Bde arrived at or near Mathews hill around 10am and Jackson made it to Henry Hill were the battle now had moved too around 11.30am.
From the positions they have on the game map and the turns they have to move I don't see how Bartow can make till 10am as this would be just 6 turns to get there and Bee is not even released before 10am. The opposite is Jackson he may even be too early there at least before the others as he is released before them and has also position West of them.
So do I miss something here or is the schedule for these units simply not good set? One must also consider that there is no "on the double" in the game and so they will need many turns to get to Mathews Hill and Henry Hill.

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Last edited by C. Hecht on Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Campaign Antietam - 1st Bull Run(Sc. 103) - release sche
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:20 pm
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You appear to be very astute in you examination of the CSA release times, Christian. As the designer of the scenario tree, Rich Walker would have been working to provide enough variety for the players in their selections based upon his own historical references and information. It is always surprising in design endeavors of such magnitude that we do not find more of a number of irregularities and discrepancies, if we look deep enough. The Antietam/Bull Run package is a very large package (202 separate scenarios), essentially covering a period of three major battles that only in the very loose sense can be termed a "campaign," especially considering that the entire Peninsula Campaign was historically wedge in between two of those battles.

Perhaps, if Rich should happen to read this, he might comment upon his thinking and structure in arranging the release times as they appear. It may have been a simple exclusion to identify the scenario as a "What-If" variation.

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 Post subject: Re: Campaign Antietam - 1st Bull Run(Sc. 103) - release sche
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:20 am 
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I doubt that this was meant as What-If because the setup seems similar with the main historical scenario.
Description is short:
"(Historical, 45 Turns) This variation of the historical scn uses sectional arty, instead of the larger full batteries. This will simulate more flexibility."

It's just the schedule that seems to have missed the mark at least for the brigades of the Army of Shenandoah, could be mix up so that wrong brigades release at wrong times or even a simple typo here or there.

Is Rich Walker still active in the business of HPS/JTS?

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 Post subject: Re: Campaign Antietam - 1st Bull Run(Sc. 103) - release sche
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:12 pm 
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Posts: 33
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Hi,

Yep, still very active, but at a reduced rate. I just finished CWB Franklin for the Tablet.

As for the schedule releases, I can't really comment on my thinking, as it has been some time since this scn was designed. And you may be entirely correct, I just can't remember and don't feel like spending the hours needed to research. So if you find any opportunities within the scn, please make use of the editor and make any changes you feel appropriate.

BTW, with the new 2.0 releases, all the OBs have been unlocked! HAVE FUN!

Rich


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 Post subject: Re: Campaign Antietam - 1st Bull Run(Sc. 103) - release sche
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:17 pm 
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Thanks Rich, do you maybe still have the notes for the scenario design of this title around?
Maybe there would be something in it why the schedule is the way it is.

I haven't looked into scenario design but I thought that just no new maps could be added, so the OOBs were locked too?
Is there anything else that restricts scenario design?

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 Post subject: Re: Campaign Antietam - 1st Bull Run(Sc. 103) - release sche
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:56 pm 
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I fI can find my notes, I will let you know. But changing the release times, and or positions is a simple task.
Maps are locked. The other main element is the pdt file. I don't think the pdt is locked. When you create a scn, the system will ask for a MAP, OOB and the PDT.


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 Post subject: Re: Campaign Antietam - 1st Bull Run(Sc. 103) - release sche
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:44 am 
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RichWalker wrote:
Hi,

...

BTW, with the new 2.0 releases, all the OBs have been unlocked! HAVE FUN!




Interesting -as that was news to me... thanks for the info Rich.

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 Post subject: Re: FEEDBACK: Campaign Antietam - 1st Bull Run(Sc. 103)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:56 pm 
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The release schedule may be in question but now that I played it a second time and afterwards worked through some sources there is one thing that definitely needs to be done.
The 2 fixed Union brigades of Davies and Blenker near Centreville need to be released over the course of the scenario.
Davies in the morning to march south and join Richardson for the distraction attempt there.
Blenker at least by afternoon to cover the Unions withdrawal, be it the main union army or the distraction attempt in the south. I would suggest to release it even earlier to make sure it is able to position itself to defend Centreville in any direction especially to the South-East if the Rebels use the Roads east of the Little Rocky Run.


My sources are:
"Battle at Bull Run - A History of the First Major Campaign of the Civil War" some key sentences:
"Miles, when finally he did get going, injudiciously left Blenker at Centreville and sent only Davies to join Richardson. Davies further weakened himself when he left two of his regiments to guard a road by which Confederates coming from McLean's Ford or Union Mills Ford
might move on his left. Finally Davies joined Richardson and assumed command of the field. Here they kept up their artillery fire throughout the morning and into the afternoon, all the while constructing barricades and earthworks in case of an enemy advance.
Sometime before noon Miles himself rode toward his front, first encountering the regiments Davies had left behind."

and
"Miles, meanwhile, went back to Centreville, and here he learned of the disaster on McDowell's right. One of Heintzelman's staff asked if Blenker could not be sent toward the stone bridge to try and stop the rout. Miles, apparently too ill and intoxicated to keep his reason, rushed the man aside saying, "I know all about the fight. You can't give me any information. I have something else to attend to." Shortly he saw through the fog, however, and he ordered Blenker to move toward Cub Run, while ordering Davies and Richardson to pull back toward Centreville."

"Staff Ride Guide - Battle of First Bull Run"
It shows a map with the mentioned move of Davies.

"The Maps of First Bull Run - An Atlas of the First Bull Run (Manassas) Campaign, including the Battle of Ball's Bluff, June-October 1861"
It mentions that Miles arrived at Richardson & Davies position at 11:00, so by that time Davies must have been there for a while already.


Whatever exactly is done, the 2 Union brigades of Davies & Blenker must be unfixed.
I had to witness what happens if they stay fixed, the Confederates easily conquered Centreville without the brigades unfixing because their position was too far away and too spread.

Hopefully this thread gets moved to a feedback section once we will have such a strongly needed section.

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