ACWGC
* ACWGC     * Dpt. of Records       * CSA HQ    * VMI    * Join CSA    
   * Union HQ    * UMA    * Join Union     ACWGC Memorial
CSA Armies:    ANV    AotW
Union Armies:    AotT     AotC      AotP      AotS     Union Army Forums
     Link Express
American Civil War Books, Magazines and Games for sale (See other items)
Club Forums:     NWC    CCC     Home Pages:     NWC    CCC    ACWGC
It is currently Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:11 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 4:51 pm
Posts: 2809
Location: Massachusetts, USA
According to my sources, on June 30th:
Meade and Arty Reserve- Taneytown (Reserve Arty to Gettysburg)
1st Corps=Marsh Run- Ordered to Gettysburg Jun 30
2nd=Uniontown (ordered by Meade to Taneytown Jun 30)
3rd=Bridgeport - Ordered to Tanneytown Jun 30
5th=Union Mills- Ordered to Hanover Jun 30
6th and Gregg=Manchester 6th Remained at Manchester-
34 miles from Gettysburg Arrived at Gettysburg 4:00 PM-Jul 2.
11th=Emmitsburg –Ordered to Gettysburg Jun 30
12th=Littlestown- Ordered to Two Taverns Jun 30
Kilpatrick=Hanover

2nd Corps arrived at Gettysburg at 07:30 AM July 2,
along with 2 5th Corps divisions


<b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands
General, Commanding, Army of Ohio
Image
ACWGC Cabinet Member
ACWGC Records Site Administrator
</b></font id="gold">


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:48 am
Posts: 345
Location: United Kingdom
On BGG scenario 13h. Gettysburg (3-day 149 turns) The Union II Corps arival schedule is as follows:-

15:40 (1st July) Maj. Gen. Winfield Scott Hancock.
05:00 (2nd July) Brig. Gen. John Caldwell.
05:00 (2nd July) Col. Edward Cross.
05:00 (2nd July) Col. Patrick Kelly.
05:00 (2nd July) Brig. Gen. Samuel Zook.
05:00 (2nd July) Col. John Brooke.
05:00 (2nd July) Supply Wagon.
05:20 (2nd July) Brig. Gen. Alexander Hays.
05:20 (2nd July) Col. Samuel S Carroll.
05:20 (2nd July) Col. Thomas Smyth.
05:20 (2nd July) Col. George Willard.
05:40 (2nd July) Brig. Gen. John Gibbon.
05:40 (2nd July) Brig. Gen. William Harrow.
05:40 (2nd July) Brig. Gen. Alexander Webb.
05:40 (2nd July) Col. Norman Hall.
06:00 (2nd July) II Corps Artillery Bde.
06:00 (2nd July) Supply Wagon(s).

All these units arrive on hex 0,45 on the Southern edge of the large map. I figure the distance to be 3 miles from Cemetery hill?

Lt.Col. Jim Wilkes.
2nd Brigade, Cavalry Division, XX Corps.
AoC. U.S.A.


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 4:51 pm
Posts: 2809
Location: Massachusetts, USA
15:40 (1st July) Maj. Gen. Winfield Scott Hancock.
05:00 (2nd July) Brig. Gen. John Caldwell. (II Corps-1st Div)
05:00 (2nd July) Col. Edward Cross. (1st Brigade)
05:00 (2nd July) Col. Patrick Kelly. (2nd Brigade)
05:00 (2nd July) Brig. Gen. Samuel Zook. (3rd Brigade)
05:00 (2nd July) Col. John Brooke. (4th Brigade)
05:00 (2nd July) Supply Wagon.
05:20 (2nd July) Brig. Gen. Alexander Hays. (II Corps-3rd Div)
05:20 (2nd July) Col. Samuel S Carroll. (1st Brigade)
05:20 (2nd July) Col. Thomas Smyth. (2nd Brigade)
05:20 (2nd July) Col. George Willard. (3rd Brigade)
05:40 (2nd July) Brig. Gen. John Gibbon.
05:40 (2nd July) Brig. Gen. William Harrow. (II Corps-2nd Div)
05:40 (2nd July) Brig. Gen. Alexander Webb. (2nd Brigade)
05:40 (2nd July) Col. Norman Hall. (3rd Brigade)
06:00 (2nd July) II Corps Artillery Bde.
06:00 (2nd July) Supply Wagon(s).

This is relatively consistent with my previous post.

<b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands
General, Commanding, Army of Ohio
Image
ACWGC Cabinet Member
ACWGC Records Site Administrator
</b></font id="gold">


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 22, 2001 10:10 pm
Posts: 808
Location: USA
According to Pfanz 2 corps was ordered to march to Gettysburg at @ 1230 pm on July 1 and reached the area just south of Roundtop around sundown where Gen Hancock met them on his way back to see Meade. The entire corps did not close up until near midnight and spent the night there. Gibbon, still in command of the corps had them up at first light although they apparently did not move right away as Geary left his position around LRT around 5 AM and there is no mention of the two corps runing into one another in their respective marches.

Gen. Ken Miller
1/2/VI
AoS
Image


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2002 11:44 pm
Posts: 19
Location:
I'm at work, so I don't have access to much - I will get it later, but I assume that when I garnered "absolutely bogus", "plucked out of air", "erronuneous"[sic] sources they may have been something like this:

OFFICIAL RECORDS: Series 1, vol 27, Part 1 (Gettysburg Campaign)
Page 386 N. C., VA., W. VA., MD., PA., ETC. Chapter XXXIX.

Numbers 82. Report of Colonel Patrick Kelly, Eighty-eighth New York Infantry, commanding Second Brigade.

HEADQUARTERS SECOND BRIGADE, FIRST DIVISION,
Near Morrisville, Va., August 9 1863.

MAJOR: I have the honor to forward the following report of the part taken by this brigade in the battle of Gettysburg, Pa., on July 2 and 3; About 10 p. m. on the 1st, we arrived within 2 or 3 miles of Gettysburg; bivouacked in an adjacent field; threw out our pickets, and at 4. 30 o'clock next morning (2d), marched toward Gettysburg. Arriving

There is more, I am sure, but I have work to do. Bill - nice tone to your post dude.

Doug


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2002 11:44 pm
Posts: 19
Location:
Aw shoot - I'm blowing off work for a little while to consult some other cryptic, mystical bogus sources.

Here's one:

Numbers 110. Report of Colonel Arthur F. Devereux, Nineteenth Massachusetts Infantry.

TANEYTOWN, MD.,

July 7, 1863.

SIR: I have the honor to submit the following report of the part which my regiment took in the late engagement near Gettysburg: On the evening of July 1, the corps was halted about 2 miles from the battle-ground. At daybreak of the 2d, were marched to the front, this division forming in columns of regiments by brigade on the right of the road, with its front toward the right of the position held by our army. Remaining there perhaps an hour, it crossed the road, and, by a counter march of regiments, assumed a front in an opposite

Here's another:

Numbers 112. Reports of Major Sylvanus W. Curtis, Seventh Michigan Infantry.

CAMP IN PLEASANT VALLEY, MD.,

July 16, 1863.

SIR: This regiment left its temporary encampment, about 2 miles south of Gettysburg, on the morning of July 2, pursuant to orders, the regiments of the brigade in the following order: The Forty-second New York, Twentieth and Nineteenth Massachusetts, Seventh Michigan, and Fifty-ninth New York, respectively. Moving across an open field,

Oh! - here's another:

Numbers 119. Report of Lieutenant Colonel Leonard W. Carpenter Fourth Ohio Infantry.

CAMP NEAR TWO TAVERNS, PA., July 6, 1863.

SIR: I have the honor to submit the following report of the part taken by the Fourth Regiment Ohio Infantry, under my command, in the battle near Gettysburg, on the 2nd and 3rd instant: On the 2d, early in the morning, I moved, with the balance of the brigade, from a point about 1 1/2 miles in rear of the cemetery, where we had bivouacked during the night of the 1st, a little in rear of Cemetery Hill

Holy mother of pearl, there are a bunch of mistaken people generating these reports - like this guy!

Numbers 123. Report of Colonel Thomas A. Smith, First Delaware Infantry, commanding Second Brigade.

HDQRS. SECOND BRIG., THIRD DIV., SECOND CORPS, July 17, 1863.

CAPTAIN: I have the honor to make the following report of the part taken by this brigade in the action at Gettysburg, Pa., from July 1 to 4: Being in camp at Uniontown, Md., on the morning of July 1, I received an order to march at 6. 30 a. m.: marched to Taneytown, and halted until 12 m., when the command resumed the march toward Gettysburg, and encamped about 3 miles from the town. At 4 a. m. on the 2d, the brigade was placed in position on the hills overlooking the town, my command being placed on the left on the First Brigade.

Gee whiz, this is really hard to do - I'm having to search high and low to come up with reports:

No. 125. Report of Lieutenant John T. Dent, First Delaware Infantry.

-, - -, 1863.

SIR: I have the honor to submit the following as the report of the part taken by the First Regiment Delaware Infantry at the battle of Gettysburg: On the evening of July 1, the regiment, under command of Lieutenant Colonel E. P. Harris, bivouacked to the right of the Taneytown road, within 3 miles of Gettysburg. Early on the morning of July 2, the line of march was resumed. We arrived on the field about 4 a. m.,

Yawn...

Numbers 132. Report of Captain John G. Hayard, First Rhode Island Light Artillery, commanding Artillery Brigade, Second Army Corps.

HDQRS. ARTILLERY BRIGADE, SECOND ARMY CORPS, August 1, 1863.

SIR: I have the honor to transmit the following report of the part taken by the batteries of this brigade in the battle of July 2 and 3. On the morning of July 1, the brigade-composed of Light Com- pany I, First U. S. Artillery, First Lieutenant George A. Woodruff commanding; Battery A, Fourth U. S. Artillery, First Lieutenant A. H. Cushing commanding; Battery A, First Rhode Island Light Artillery, Captain W. A. Arnold commanding; Battery B, First Rhode Island Light Artillery, First Lieutenant T. Frederick Brown commanding; Battery B, First New York Artillery, Captain J. M. Rorty commanding-moved from Uniontown, Md., to Taneytown, where a halt of three hours was made. At 2 p. m. the brigade moved toward Gettysburg, Pa., to the support of the First Corps, then engaged with the enemy, and at 11 p. m. went into position 3 miles southeast of Gettysburg, on the Taneytown road and facing Gettysburg. The brigade moved with the corps at daylight on July 2 toward Gettysburg,

Now I'm just guessing that I set things up to reflect these dudes being camped 2 - 3 miles south of Gettysburg by late evening on the 1st. I'll have to check the exact positions, but that's my guess. Coddington (who I did read, BTW) notwithstanding.

So sorry for misleading everyone on arrival times. My bad there.

Doug


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2002 11:44 pm
Posts: 19
Location:
I see that the original response to my posts has been removed - either by Mr. Peters or someone else - I don't know what the protocol is for that.

Prior to its removal I did see, however, the reference to my being either lazy, proud, or mistaken in my facts. And the appeal to authority re: Coddington and Catton. But mostly the personal attacks.

From the revision it would appear that the facts cited by me as to the location of the units of 2nd Corps are - mirable dieu! - correct.

I'll check the set up for the scenarios at issue. I'm relatively confident that I parked the units where they should be. Whether, in an historical scenario I should fix them in place there for some period might be an issue - which I will look at.

I also saw Mr. Peters' subsequent post - also removed - calling for a boycott of the Gettysburg game due to my flagrant flaws in design and lack of response to complaints. There are some things that need to be corrected. Ad Hominem attacks are probably not the best way to inspire a desire to work on the on my part. But that's just me.

For my part I've been occupied in another project for this series since early 2005 - I'm sure equally erroneous, shoddy, and arrogantly conceived. Whatever.

Doug


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:18 am 
Gentlemen:

My research from actual reports filed by II Corps Brigades follows. The entire Union OOB reports can be found at http://www.civilwarhome.com/gettysburgo ... ttle(union).htm

Many of the actual reports show in position or moving to positions at 3 and 4 am.


II Corp Third Division

Report of Col. Thomas A. Smyth, First Delaware Infantry, commanding Second Brigade.
Gettysburg Campaign
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/1 [S# 43]

<font color="red">in position at 4am JUL 2</font id="red">



Report of Capt. John G. Hazard, First Rhode Island Light Artillery, commanding Artillery Brigade, Second Army Corps.
Gettysburg Campaign
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/1 [S# 43]

<font color="red">3 miles SE of Gettysburg at 11pm on JUL 1</font id="red">

Report of Col. Samuel S. Carroll, Eighth Ohio Infantry, commanding First Brigade.
Gettysburg Campaign
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/1 [S# 43]

<font color="red">Line of regiments formed at 8am on Jul 2</font id="red">



II Corps Second Division

Reports of Col. Norman J. Hall, Seventh Michigan Infantry, commanding Third Brigade.
Gettysburg Campaign
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/1 [S# 43]

<font color="red">In position at dawn Jul 2 (no specific time noted)</font id="red">

Reports of Brig. Gen. Alexander S. Webb, U. S. Army, commanding Second Brigade.
Gettysburg Campaign
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/1 [S# 43]

In position at 630 am Jul 2

Report of Capt. Henry C. Coates, First Minnesota Infantry. Part if 1st BDE
-- Gettysburg Campaign O.R.--
SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/1 [S# 43]

<font color="red">Into position at 3 am Jul 2</font id="red">



II Corps First Division



Reports of Col. John R. Brooke, Fifty-third Pennsylvania Infantry, commanding Fourth Brigade.
Gettysburg Campaign
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/1 [S# 43]

<font color="red">3 miles from Gettysburg 9:30 Pm Jul 1

Moved forward to battle at 3am</font id="red">


Reports of Lieut. Col. John Fraser, One hundred and fortieth Pennsylvania Infantry, commanding regiment and Third Brigade.
Gettysburg Campaign
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/1 [S# 43]



<font color="red">To the rear of 2nd brigade morning of Jul 2 (no time given)</font id="red">


Report of Col. Patrick Kelly, Eighty-eighth New York Infantry, commanding Second Brigade.
Gettysburg Campaign
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/1 [S# 43]
<font color="red">
2 or 3 miles from Gettysburg 10 pm on Jul 1

Forward to positions starting at 4:30 am Jul 2</font id="red">


Report of Col. H. Boyd McKeen, Eighty-first Pennsylvania Infantry, commanding First Brigade.
-- Gettysburg Campaign
O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XXVII/1 [S# 43]

<font color="red">Early morning massed in woods (no specific time)</font id="red">

Your Humble Servant,



Gen. Mark E. Wolken
Army of the Tennessee
"The Army will forage liberally during the march." W.T Sherman


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:30 pm 
Gentlemen,

COL Peters makes some excellent point and the slowing of I Corps and XI Corps is appropriate, but II Corps movement is an entirely different matter.

I do not think it can be disputed that they stopped and went into camp SE of the Round Tops the evening of 1 July. They moved into line the next morning because as Bill stated, Meade was not being pressed. In the games I have played, when I am being pressed in the center, I continue to move II Corp and suffer the fatigue penalty. I would argue that Meade would have as well. When not being pressed, or when I am unsure of the Reb main drive, I will stop II Corps around the Round Tops as did Meade. It is all situational dependent.

I think we have to allow possible moves and not restrict second day movements based on historical wake up and historical movement times (on the field of battle) because we have already “changed historyâ€


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:32 am
Posts: 1643
Location: USA
If you want a different view of the arrival and release times try my scenario over on the CSA War College. I timed the II Corps so it would arrive south of the Round Tops by dusk. But I also set a high fatigue on them to force the player to choose between having fatigued troops in the line during the night or letting them rest until dawn then march to Cemetery Ridge area.

If and when HPS releases an update that includes ability to change the night fatigue factor I will change it to a higher number rather than use pre-fatiguing the units to force players to not march around at night.

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
1/1/III AoM (CSA)


Top
 Profile Send private message E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:01 am 
Namecalling and backbiting aside, I will point out that since this was all prior to the advent of the national atomic clock, not everyone's watches matched and the same exact time of day migth be reported as many hours apart by different people because of that fact. Reconstructing exact times based on historical documents prior to more accurate timekeeping on a national (and international) level is sketchy at best.

Regards,

Lt. Gen. Alan Lynn
CSA Chief of Staff
3rd Bgde, 3rd Cav Div, II Corps, AoA

God Bless <><


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: