Napoleonic Wargame Club
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Allied player for Waterloo scenario ( closed )
http://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=16041
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Author:  Thomas Moore [ Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Allied player for Waterloo scenario ( closed )

Bonjour Mis Amis,

I am looking for an Allied commander to engage in a modified Waterloo Campaign scenario. Specifically, I would like to play one of the following scenarios, # 044, #06 or #07. The major modification is to reduce stacking limits to 1050 infantry and 350 cavalry. This I believe makes for a more realistic battlefield.

I will supply the necessary new scn. file and altered pdt file with new names so they will not effect existing game files.

If interested please send courier to my HQ.

Respectfully, :frenchcharge:

Author:  Christian Hecht [ Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Allied player for Waterloo scenario

Thomas Moore wrote:
This I believe makes for a more realistic battlefield.


Not really considering d'Erlon's attack formation that was likely the most dense used in the Napoleonic wars, you can't even achieve this with the original values not to speak of you 1050 limit.
Better to use optional rules that punish stacking and raise fire effectiveness.

Author:  Thomas Moore [ Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Allied player for Waterloo scenario

Hello Christian,

I think we have had this discussion before and I disagree with your suggestion of using the stock limits of 2000 infantry and 1000 cavalry for several reasons.

First, You mention D'Erlon's attack which was a disaster in great part because of the excessive density of the formation. The men were so compressed is that the forward ranks could not deploy in to line to provide fire for the formation. If you use the 2000 limit in the game you can make all the unrealistic attacks with little penalty. Defensive fire power will not cause enough damage to deter the assault. Also you end up deploying and moving around these large stacks like queens on a chess board. The 1050 limit I chose is a bit of a compromise figure due to the limitations of the game. Since the stacking limit applies to both line and column I chose a limit that could be used reasonably to represent the several varieties of column formations but not go to far beyond the 450 realistic max line formation limit.

Secondly, Using 1000 cavalry stacking limit turns 1000 charging heavy cavalry into a virtual battalion of tanks destroying all before it. Though you could physically maybe place 1000 cavalry in a 100m hex, you could not control the formation in a charge. According to the H & R boys the max is around 300 to 350.

Thirdly,Other benefits of reduced stacking are that reduced stacking helps encourage defense in depth so that brigades and divisions can cover a greater front and in depth. Also reduced stacking enables single battalions to be and effective defense force for a single hex in many circumstances.

Lastly, Much of my opinions are based on a wonderful article by the H & R boys titled;
" Historicity & Realism Project"
This article not only discusses realistic stacking but also unrealistic casualties and much more.I can not recommend this article more highly for all our members. The article can be found online under the above title.

Author:  Geoff McCarty [ Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Allied player for Waterloo scenario ( closed )

Technically if every man were packed into a hectare with 1m center mass to the men adjecent him you could fit 10,000 bodies in there.
The major point of contention I have with the game is how many shots can be fired in a turns worth of time from a battle line. H&R tried to re-evaluate logistics problems and only introduced different logistics problems without accomodating the base engine ruleset. This 1050 infantry, 350 cavalry parameter change seems unnecessary for limiting melee assaults. It denies fire density multiplier which I think is key. A better house rule for gameplay would be to embed melee (I think it's called) and prohibit the use of multiple units attacking out of a single hex per melee. That way you would need to surround a position to get ultimate assault odds with columns. Cavalry would also become less of a brute force due to their equivalence to infantry strength mano y mano after charge multiple.
I don't think my concept would be any more realistic than this H&R inspired pdt change or the standard methods. It would just be different. The base game cannot be reconciled with reality. It's a turn based hex wargame. Like chess^1000.

Author:  Jonathan Thayer [ Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Allied player for Waterloo scenario ( closed )

General Moore,

If you are still looking for an opponent I am interested. I like your ideas on stacking restrictions as I am looking for a way to play these games where both side rely much more on fire power than constant melees.

Author:  Geoff McCarty [ Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Allied player for Waterloo scenario ( closed )

This scenario certainly wouldn't be for you Jon. I'm playing Tom now and the inital weather parameters are low artillery, low musketry, normal assaults. Tom's French are just skipping down the road to Brussels. Kinda odd to modify a couple Waterloo parameters for realisms sake without addressing the other glaring flaws in the OOB, parameters, and starting positions.

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