Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)
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1815
https://wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=15032		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  clifton seeney [ Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  1815
I find the long 1815 games exciting and I get the feeling that I am right there
Author:  Mark Hornsby [ Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1815
Hi Clifton

I think you are right, in fact the Battle of Waterloo is what got me hooked on the Napoleonic history all those years back and if there is one battle that had to be named by any one who didn't know much about the Napoleonic Wars then this is a battle that they would name. I have to be honest about it though the battle and campaign was won by Blucher and his Prussians and not as history try's to say by Wellington.
Author:  clifton seeney [ Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1815
The only draw back I see in the games is that once the French get their guns on the Allies it's going to be a French victory. The weather conditions in many of the games are way off almost no weather at all.
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1815
Isn't any weather set in the PDT file?
Author:  S_Trauth [ Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1815
I think this title came out before it was added to the engine. Typically the teams don't have time to go in an add in a pdt with engine changes, it is there for guys to do that on their own if they like. I think part of this has to do with testing. I don't actually know if there are any scenarios with weather in Waterloo but I will take Clifton's word on it as I have never looked.

Weather being a fairly new addition to the engine, and even at that it is all just coded into the pdt files - so it can be very subjective: for example I have a theory that on hot days (like really hot) that in order to fatigue the forces - that the temperature/humidity can actually increase weapons' effectiveness - but then at that point, the players (especially if playing a campaign game with linked battles and loss recovery) needs to understand that a decent strategy is to back off ... I imagine it might be rare that it happens like that -and maybe part of that is going to be due to documentation -I would not expect anything like this to be in user guides as much as I would hope it would be in either scenario descriptions and/or designer notes.

At any rate if you want to parse out any weather lines (I am not sure if there are any in there or not -have never looked) - we, as a club, can have a go at working with them and maybe coming up with a pdt edit and some alt scenarios using it - I am not up for working on OOBs but pdt edits wouldn't cause you to have to potentially adjust the initial deployments in a scenario.

The trick I think with weather is not to give in to the temptation to code every single turn or even every hour -but just go for probabilities ... like does a day start our foggy, or stormy ... should it clear up or get worse? And naturally what impact on combat and movement (as well as visibility of course) it has.
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1815
Well according to the notes I got from your page weather should be in, I would take a look if really no weather is in effect.
Author:  S_Trauth [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1815
All that means is that I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the series and sometimes write off the top of my head when addressing web posts. :| of course after checking the pdt files you are correct, Christian, however the thing is -is that there is no centralised database as to what weather effects should be, no single opinion.

What I was saying was not incorrect in the sense that in many situations once an engine is changed then the scenarios are not usually modified (in this case they were).

Anyway more to the point is - it is possible that one may find that they may want to apply different weather effects (or change times or probabilities of changes) -and all that is, which I think you alluded to, is coding that can be changed in the pdt.
Author:  clifton seeney [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1815
There is mud but that makes the going slow, but it does not stop French Artillery from killing the Allies chance of attack! All the French have to do is put their artillery behind the Infantry and watch the Prussians run!
Author:  clifton seeney [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1815
Allied cav is just as good as it could get, but French Cav can beat the hell out of them if massed.
Author:  Andy Moss [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1815
There are two issues with 1815 that I have.

First is that the French have superior quality and a full chain of command. Allied quality is low and several formations lack the full chain of command, meaning reordering becomes very diffficult. Isolation Rule therefore becomes a killer.

The second issue is speed. This applies especially to the large 007 campaign game which is a popular scenario to play. Unless the French can be stopped at the river early on they can romp all over the map very quickly. they can arrive at quatre Bras a day early - and with allied reinforcements arriving at their historical times, the French normally dictate the pace. Many games are resigned by the allies within 50 turns.

Several scenarios tend to favour one side or the other and these should be discussed individually I think. After Waterloo and Historical campaign, the Waterloo-Wavre battle is popular and is good for multiplayer.

The company-level free add-ons play very differently. For one thing units very rarely get high fatigue as they are eliminated well before then. Units tend to run low on ammo quicker so supply is an important consideration. I personally prefer these scenarios although I accept the full battle of Waterloo is on the big side, but recommended.

Just some general thoughts.
Author:  clifton seeney [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1815
General mud would cut the French speed down weather would slow their advance. The Game is given away to much to the French and has been updated many times still if the Allied army moves into the kill early that will slow the French down at their starting point. The Bridges are way to hard to blow up that was given away at the last update the problem is the play testers are the same people and often the best players from the Allied Army who know what to do. And that's it in a nut shell.
Author:  Cezary Pluskwa [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1815
:frenchsalute:
Sirs,

Realistic and historic weather and her later effects should be, as is possibility, of course.

The most important is the ability to build temporary wooden bridges and pontoon bridges on each river. :thumbsup:

Both sides must have fatigue after their movements of armies, not only on account of battles. Night's fights and movements too.

Columns of units on the pikes, roads and patches must to move in marching columns. That is simulation countless of supply wagons, baggage trains, ammunition caissons and forges field, hundreds of cannons, thousands of infantries, horses, marauders, refugees, etc. For example, grand unit, Corps can be extended to 15-30km.

And naturally always must be on, Fog of War, Line of Sight, Line of Fire, Command and Control, other systems as fixed units, replacements, withdrawals, etc.
:frenchvive:
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1815
Regarding speed, well I guess if the French player exploits his knowledge(or simply refuses to act as lame as Ney did) and goes directly without a stop to Quatre-Bras mostly ignoring the Prussians in the direction of Ligny there is not much one can do about it.
Well maybe adding points for supply, when the French so totally ignore the Prussians and storm North their line of communication and with it their supply might be vulnerable.

I guess the Allied command chain is intended to be broken to simulate this multi-national force.
Author:  clifton seeney [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1815
The Idea of the game as far as this designer is concern is not to do another BG game but a HPS game. Where as the BG game goes more toward the real battle and the HPS game is more in favor of the play-testers advice. When you compare the HPS to the BG the BG was limit to winning before Waterloo then the waterloo game would appear I never saw it appear and was left with pro-log game.
Author:  Mike Friedman [ Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1815
One change that might be interesting to try in order to keep the French advance to a more realistic level in the large campaign scenarios would be to increase the odds of running out ammo. Maybe even more so for the French versus the AA and Prussian Armies to simulate them invading enemy held land. Whereas the Allies were defending territory they had been stationed in for some time.

You might have to add more supply wagons or increase the supply number for each wagon for this to play out well.

It might make the French player less likely to storm ahead and more likely to move at the speed of their supplies.

Of course, a lot of the fighting by the French in this game is columns/melee, so maybe it would change nothing.

Just a thought.
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