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 Post subject: Austerlitz map
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:59 am 
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Good day gentlemen,
having read a bit more on Austerlitz it raised some doubts about the terrain in the North-East section of the map.

1. Some villages seem to miss like Posorsitz(North-East of Siwitz) and Schumitz(North-East of Kowalowitz), I know we have some missing villages far in the West near the Schwarzawa river but these are unlikely to ever play a role, but Posorsitz was a village on which some Russian troops fell back in the afternoon(afaik the 5th Jäger supported by cavalry) and it would be nice to add. But also further in the North-East corner villages are missing like Wazan, Slawikowitz and Alt-Rausnitz(not to mix up with Rausnitz what should be named to Neu-Rausnitz).

2. The forest and orchards between Krug and Blasowitz make me wonder, there was much cavalry fighting going on in the morning in that area but with the terrain features we got the fight would be severally hampered if it would happen at all, all the forest and orchard hexes would disorder cavalry and it's unlikely that player would develop their cavalry in this bottleneck that is left between forest and orchard. Also the huge field hedge and orchard area East of Blasowitz seems a bit suspicious too.

3. The huge forest area in the north is suspicious to me, especially anything south of a line from Posorsitz(if it would be there) to Kowalowitz, Murat and his cavalry were in good action in that area in the afternoon, again unlikely to happen with all this forest. That area was also terrain over which the infantry lines ran when Bagration fell further back till his line was anchored from North of Kowalowitz to the south side of the Rausnitzer stream, again unlikely to happen with all this forest bulge so far south that forms a bottleneck that is rather easy to defend and no terrain for even light cavalry(maybe except cossacks).
I was searching for a map that showed more than the usually contour lines but found only some very rough maps that have a forest line running much further North of where we have it now.
Take a look here:
http://www.woodmann.com/searchlores/eva ... erlitz.htm

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Last edited by Christian Hecht on Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Austerlitz map
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:19 am 
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I used Czech maps when building the Austerlitz battlefield and compared them to the ones I had.

See my sources for the books I used.

Barring that our maps are usually always missing some village here and there. Its hard to include them all. Sometimes no name is listed and its just a group of buildings. So is it a village, a small group of huts or just some artists rendering?

Its hard on this scale of development where we do something like 15 battles in a game to cover it all. Sorry but I wont be updating the map for most of my earlier games. I simply do not have the mental energy for it anymore. I would be pulled in so many directions if I did that.

Eventually once the series is done I hope that John Tiller decides to release the map editor. Folks can then update our maps as they wish!

For me I am happy with it. The area you speak of is not exactly the Pratzen heights .... its an area that is not usually fought over, correct?

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General der Kavallerie Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz
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Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles series - John Tiller Software
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 Post subject: Re: Austerlitz map
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:42 pm 
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No not the Pratzen heights, its the northern area of the battlefield where the bigger cavalry clashes took place. Are the Czech maps you used online available?

I'm not so much worried about the villages but from various descriptions of the battle in that area and from some maps I point out 3 things:
1. The massive forest in the north might not nearly have gone that far south.
It's often mentioned that Bagration was in a line north of the Brünn-Olmütz road, but that would mean he would have the forest in his back or would even stand right in it, such a position was rather unusual as it denied a possible retreat. It's also mentioned that Bagration tried to go around the French left, for that he would have had to go even further north than he was positioned already.
Some sources also mention a previous position of Bagration in the very early morning that had his line running north almost on the hight of Kowalowitz.
And in the afternoon there is Russian cavalry north of Kowalowitz, what again looks strange if so much forest would have been there.
If the sources are correct it seems to me that the forest edge should not run that far south, especially not on the hill at 190,16.

2. The orchard/forrest hexes between Blasowitz & Krug might not have been that extensive.
A lot cavalry action is mentioned in the area between the villages of Blasowitz & Krug.
But looking at the map, the area between these to villages is shortened to about 1/3 because of all the forest and orchard hexes. If they were so prominent in the area I guess they would have been mentioned somewhere but I couldn't find any mentioning of them anywhere.

3. The Hedge at the big field East of Blasowitz might not have been that extensive.
The Hedge is another big obstacle for all cavalry, but Lichtenstein's cavalry advanced through that area and nothing of such an obstacle is mentioned anywhere. That makes me doubt that it played a role and by that should likely be removed or at least thinned out.


I have made a graphic to show some of the things I mentioned.(Ignore the French line, it's for the #22H. The Battle of Austerlitz scenario thread)
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 Post subject: Re: Austerlitz map
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:37 pm 
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I found a high quality map from a board game that could be used as blueprint for correcting of the Northern area of the map.
http://www.simmonsgames.com/products/Au ... Frame.html
It depicts the Rarodinach Berg and the area further north free of forest but with the villages that were mentioned in descriptions of the battle.

I would already be happy to get a first draft that shifts the forst line much further north to get free terrain for the battle. The descriptions of the battle mention actions of infantry & cavalry of Bagration and the French in that area, Russian cavalry was as far north as Schumitz. But currently the terrain between the Rausnitzer stream and the forest is just half as wide if not more as it should be, that benefits the defender a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Austerlitz map
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:34 am 
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Bill Peters wrote:
Eventually once the series is done I hope that John Tiller decides to release the map editor.


Bill, is this under consideration or just something you'd like to happen?

(Fingers crossed...)

Paul

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