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 Post subject: British Hussars and the First World War
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:37 am 
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Ok - at first you going to say, "what on earth does this subject have to do with the Napoleonic Wars?"

Ok - dont panic .. I am not about to help produce a game that has miles and miles of trenches, cavalry galloping into MG nests and what not. And I doubt that Napoleon would have cared for mustard gas either ;)

In doing research on the British army for the period 1792-1800 I discovered that the Hussar regiments were converted Light Dragoon regiments which did not come on the scene until 1805. Four Light Dragoon regiments were converted - they were the 7th, 10, 15 and 18th. I was looking to see if I needed to hunt down a British hussar image. Not needed. Hussars were not in existence at this time.

Question: what were the names/numbers of the British Hussars? The article on the Napoleon Series forum did not list their names/numbers. I suspect they were renumbered as 1,2,3 and 4th, correct?

So I was reading through a topic on the British cavalry commanders on the Napoleon Series website and found this statement at:
[url]
http://www.napoleon-series.org/military ... Intro.html[/url]

"I have chosen to cover the entire period from 1793 until 1815 (and beyond, until 1818 in some cases) as this is the generally accepted range of the ‘Napoleonic Wars’. This name is, of course, a misnomer, since Napoleon was a mere junior officer at the start of it all. The combats and stations of the British regiments chronicled will demonstrate that the period was, in reality, the true First World War; European troops fought and died in North America, South America, Egypt, India, Java, Mauritius, the West Indies. The insular pre-radio society of the time was unable to envisage, let alone understand, the bigger picture."

I beg to differ with the writer who forgot that the First World War was probably earlier - the Seven Years War. In that war you had men and women fighting in Europe, North and South America, India, the East Indies, you name it. Wherever European interests lay via the high seas there was conflict.

The Napoleonic Wars, according to the writer, would then be called "World War II." World War III would be the war of 1914-18. World War IV would be that of 1936-1945, the starting year up in the air but definitely NOT 1939 when you consider that Germany was pushing their military around in Europe, China and Japan and also Russia vs. Japan (briefly) were at war and what not.

But the Napoleonic Wars were not the First World War. The Seven Years War holds that distinction if you look at it from his viewpoint.

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 Post subject: Re: British Hussars and the First World War
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:25 am 
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A friend of mine emailed me the names of the British hussars. They were:

7th (Queen's Own)
10th (Pr. of Wales)
15th (King's Own)
18th (no name, just Hussars).

They kept the numbering of the regiments of the cavalry.

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Husaren-Regiment Hessen-Kassel
Infanterie-Brigade Hessen-Kassel
Königlich-Preußisches Armee-Korps
Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles series - John Tiller Software
http://friendsofwargaming.com/support-bill-peters.html


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 Post subject: Re: British Hussars and the First World War
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:54 am 
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Thanks for sharing Bill! It always confused me on this one and I need to go back and see what I should put down on the AAA's page. :frenchcool

I too share your feelings about the Seven Years War!

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 Post subject: Re: British Hussars and the First World War
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:41 am 
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Bill Peters wrote:
"I have chosen to cover the entire period from 1793 until 1815 (and beyond, until 1818 in some cases) as this is the generally accepted range of the ‘Napoleonic Wars’. This name is, of course, a misnomer, since Napoleon was a mere junior officer at the start of it all. The combats and stations of the British regiments chronicled will demonstrate that the period was, in reality, the true First World War; European troops fought and died in North America, South America, Egypt, India, Java, Mauritius, the West Indies. The insular pre-radio society of the time was unable to envisage, let alone understand, the bigger picture."

But the Napoleonic Wars were not the First World War. The Seven Years War holds that distinction if you look at it from his viewpoint.

Interesting...in his book "War", historian Gwynne Dyer defines a "World War" as "a war in which all the great powers of the time are involved" and claims that by this definition, there have been six so far:

    The Thirty Years' War
    The War of the Spanish Succession
    The Seven Years' War
    The Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars
    World War I
    World War II

He also notes that since the "first" (1618-1648), a world war has occurred more or less every 50 years, reasoning that although there is one missing for the mid 19th Century , most of the major powers did fight one or more of each other, just not all at the same time. He maintains that 50 years is about enough time for the international situation established at the end of the previous war to change sufficiently and create the tensions that bring about the next one.

"This entire line of argument is offensive to many people on both sides of the present confrontation [the Cold War], because it diminishes the importance of particular beliefs and loyalties that they hold dear. But if we are trapped in a historical pattern, then it would be best to recognize it."

By this reckoning, of course, the next one is already long overdue...

(My copy was printed in the 1980s, but I believe the book has been updated to take account of developments in more recent years.)

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 Post subject: Re: British Hussars and the First World War
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:41 am 
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Interesting thoughts, Paul! Thanks for sharing :)

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Husaren-Regiment Hessen-Kassel
Infanterie-Brigade Hessen-Kassel
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Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles series - John Tiller Software
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 Post subject: Re: British Hussars and the First World War
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:03 pm 
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Indeed!
And I agree that we are overdue for some big bang, international borders already mean nothing and maniacs with wicked hair have nuclear weapons.
Hold on to your pants gentlemen or you're... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNc3ELaF0K0

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 Post subject: Re: British Hussars and the First World War
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:24 pm 
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It's an interesting debate, though of course, like most of these debates, you end up turning on definitions and semantics. What defines a World War? How many continents need to be involved? How extreme does the conflicts on those continents need to be?

For instance, I could argue that World War II is the "real" First World War. Why? Because, that's the first time that the Asian nations outside of India were deeply involved. Yes, there was a bit of peripheral scrumming about in China in WW1, but compared to the CBI theater in WW2, it's decidedly lower tier. On the other hand, the WSS, WAS and 7YW and Napoleonic Wars were the ones where the Americas became a major scene of operations, while aside from some anti U-Boat duties, they were not theaters in WW1-2, though of course, heavily involved as participants.

For what it's worth, I would consider the WSS and WAS as "proto-World Wars" the 7YW and Napoleonic Wars to be World Wars, as well as the 20th Century conflicts.

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 Post subject: Re: British Hussars and the First World War
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:15 pm 
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I think you can regard WW1 as a world war because there was combat all over the globe. German raiders were hiding in harbors of remote islands being hunted down by the ships of the Allies. Combat was on Africa as well as in parts of Asia and off the shores of S.America. The impact on the global trade was immense. Trading partners with Germany and Austria lost income.

I think the term "World Impact" comes to mind. While someone could argue that any war has that cascading effect of trade, the major wars which were fought in remote areas of the globe caused far more loss than the others. World War I had an impact on most of the open nations of the world. I doubt that Nepal was adversely affected. India, however, was involved.

Its all how someone looks at it. Just a fun survey. Someone on The Miniatures Page forum got rather fired up about the semantics. I just look at it from the objective standpoint and do not try and pin it down to a list.

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Husaren-Regiment Hessen-Kassel
Infanterie-Brigade Hessen-Kassel
Königlich-Preußisches Armee-Korps
Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles series - John Tiller Software
http://friendsofwargaming.com/support-bill-peters.html


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