Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)
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Bautzen
https://wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15703		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Clint Matthews [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Bautzen
Finally got around to buying this title.

an early Christmas gift for me.
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bautzen
Great, Clint! Hope you enjoy it! :frenchvive1:

Ken Miller and I played the Konigswartha-Eichberg scenario a couple of times. I have played the full battle of Lutzen plus the smaller Lutzen scenarios as well. The full battle of Bautzen is a real challenge for the French as the Allies can go over to the offensive on the first day and try and defeat L'Emperor before Ney arrives.

Vladmir has played many of the Russo-Swedish War scenarios.

While not as popular as Leipzig there still is plenty to play in this title.
Author:  Andy Moss [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bautzen
A good title for sure!

It also means you can now play the full 1813 campaign.
Author:  Clint Matthews [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bautzen
use expected values........

I saw an explanation once.

Should this be checked or unchecked.

Could someone please explain this ............thanks.

tried searching............no luck
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bautzen
Expected Values have to do with playing the Campaign Game .... if you are thinking of playing an opponent in a battle then Expected Values should be unclicked.

This has to do with playing the campaign game with no battles. You can whip through a campaign quickly by just making your choices, your opponent does the same, then you open up the campaign game to see the result. Move on to the next "situation dialog" and do it again.

I often do that during the checking of the campaigns to see if the images are registering properly. If the Situation or Decision map doesn't show up it means I entered in the wrong path for the image.

Otherwise its fun to go through the entire campaign solo using Expected Values just to see how it can vary.
Author:  Colin Knox [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bautzen
Hi Chaps
I have this title but I note the artillery values are different from Leipzig. Maybe its been fixed in a patch I have not loaded - comments welcome.
Eg the French 6pdr is worst in Bautzen vs Leipzig. Range of 9 vs 11.

Not complaining as such as its a great title but the French arty is a bit outgunned so would be good for it to be like Leipzig.
Salute :frenchvive1: :frenchvive: :frenchvive1: :frenchcharge:
Author:  Andy Moss [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bautzen
I hadn't noticed that, normally playing the allies. As far as I know I have both titles with the latest patches and there is indeed a difference!
Author:  Bill Peters [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bautzen
Colin - Leipzig (and 1814) needs to be corrected. Its too long for a 6lb gun. Marengo and Bautzen both use 9 hexes as the longest range.

When I get around to it I will make the corrections. Should go quick if I use Ultra Edit (correctly).

The 6lber was a support weapon. Not a long range gun. The Austrian 6lb gun is 9 hexes as well. Looks like Warren and I were doing some discussions on gun ranges for one of the titles - probably Bautzen - and it was there that we decided they didn't have that kind of range.

The only difference is the extreme range value .... 9 vs. 11. At 1 value for each gun its not going to make that much of a difference for play balance anyway.

Not sure how Leipzig has escaped being updated on this. I plan on looking over ALL of the weapons values and come up with ONE set that works throughout ALL of the games I did. Eckmuhl to 1814. Bautzen and Marengo, I believe, are fine. Looks like minor touching up.
Author:  Andy Moss [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bautzen
Thanks for the clarification Bill
Author:  Jim Pfleck [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bautzen
Clint,
I really like Bautzen, in a large part because of the history-- Napoleon rebuilds his army in record time and throws it aggressively at the tired but tested Russians and the raw but motivated Prussians. You will find this very different from the other titles in three main ways: (1) the French have almost no cavalry at Lutzen and Bautzen, especially when compared to the Coalition army.(2) the French are outgunned, especially in regards to heavy artillery. (3) The Coalition has a big advantage in troop morale/quality. The French Guard is quite large and high morale but the Prussians are very high quality and the Russian Guard and Grenadiers are tough too. So what you end up with is massive French infantry formation of widely varying troop quality vs. a Coalition army that has a lot of firepower and tons of heavy cavalry. However, the Coalition does not field enough infantry to cover a wide battle area and has to walk a tightrope to make sure its infantry does not get ground down while at the same time not wasting its cavalry.

This is a much harder game for the French than Leipzig, Wagram, or Waterloo, but it is not exactly easy for the heavily outnumbered (like by at least 40,000 men) Coalition. Napoleon won both major battles but lost men at a 2:1 ratio, at least.

Have fun!
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bautzen
May I note regarding the artillery that I personally wonder if the artillery did not in any way improve or decline over the course Revolutionary & Napoleonic Wars.
I'm not only referring to the guns itself, but what about the black powder and the ammunition, did it have the same quality all the time?
Of course in such close battles like Bautzen & Leipzig there is likely no difference but I could imaging such a difference comparing the Revolutionary to the Napoleonic Wars.

Make the values identical over all the time might be admirable, but we had this at Panzer Campaigns with the Alternate Scenarios that made all the values over all game identical. The problem here is that ammunition and its availability change over the course of the War and the performance of a gun early in the war might not mirror it's performance in the middle of the War and that again might not mirror the late war.
Just look at the Panzergranate 40 that used Wolfram and had a very good performance piercing the heaviest armor, but later in the war Wolfram was short in supply and the same ammunition was done with simply steel what decline it's performance a lot.
Author:  Clint Matthews [ Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bautzen
Colin Knox wrote:
Hi Chaps
I have this title but I note the artillery values are different from Leipzig. Maybe its been fixed in a patch I have not loaded - comments welcome.
Eg the French 6pdr is worst in Bautzen vs Leipzig. Range of 9 vs 11.

Not complaining as such as its a great title but the French arty is a bit outgunned so would be good for it to be like Leipzig.
Salute :frenchvive1: :frenchvive: :frenchvive1: :frenchcharge:


speaking of differences......I noticed that the identical map in both games had a specific terrain in one and not the other.

In Bautzen.........hex 86.98 and 86,99 have embankments.

In Leipzig...........hex 86,98 and 86,99 do not have embankments.
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bautzen
Yes, I am sure differences abound. Sometimes I take an older map, update it for one game but it never gets copied to the older game. Just happens ....
Author:  Genghis [ Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bautzen
This title also contains over 20 company level scenarios from the Russo-Swedish war of 1808-09. They are challenging with limited OBs which facilitates quick turnaround time. Enjoy.
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bautzen
Yes, Bill and I seem to remember ... you and Paco checked those scenarios out too! Thanks again for all your help on that one! :thumbsup:

Bautzen was the last title my mom lived to see produced too. She never got to see Marengo released. Also my WW2 project with Slitherine was released after her passing. But she was my biggest fan! I would try and explain a bit of how the games went together.

She loved the map making part the best. Also the artwork.

Miss my main fan much! (she also was a huge sports fan ... loved tennis, football, golf, NBA ... huge Lakers fan and loved Federer .. would have loved to have seen Roger win #18 majors tourny last weekend)

Mom was half Swedish. Her dad was full Swede and she loved that we added in the Russo-Swedish War scenarios.
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