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 Post subject: Melee with mixed force.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2002 4:18 am
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Location: United Kingdom
Gentlemen

Just "grazing" in a quite moment and decided its a while since I have posted.

Never really understood all the ramifications of a "mixed" melee; I await enlightenment :frenchwink1:

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 Post subject: Re: Melee with mixed force.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:01 pm 
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Glad you see you are still alive :D

I occasionally use it for attacking a square. Charging cavalry plus infantry. The infantry and cavalry will disorder as the square is pushed aside, but the cavalry can then continue charge and melee, grabbing guns and leaders an opponent thought safe.


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 Post subject: Re: Melee with mixed force.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Hi Andy

So the cavalry are sacrificial on the initial charge but can grab leaders and guns in the second phase?

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 Post subject: Re: Melee with mixed force.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:25 pm 
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Well yes and no. With the melee on the square, the AI will determine how many infantry v cavalry die. But as long as you win the melee, the disordered cavalry can continue the charge beyond. I've even had success with a mixed force of skirmishers and cavalry v a square. As long as you have infantry in the melee, you have a chance of success against the square.


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 Post subject: Re: Melee with mixed force.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:26 pm 
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Andy is right this is a good tactic. Yes I have used skirmishers as well with cavalry. You need to unstack them after they win though otherwise your enemy can use infantry to melee your cavalry.

The best way to unstack is to overrun some hapless limbered up guns behind the square (as Andy points out) :frenchcool1: :frenchcool1: :frenchcharge: :frenchcharge: :frenchcharge: :frenchcharge:

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 Post subject: Re: Melee with mixed force.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:40 pm 
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Spacing ... spacing helps avoid the follow up attacks by cavalry taking guns and so on. And never leave leaders alone in hexes near the front lines that's for sure ;)

Andy and I are having a blast playtesting the Battle of Messkirch 1800 scenario (Unleashed version). Its definitely going to be a hit when the game comes out that's for sure. Andy has pulled off some decent attacks on my lads. Spacing was not adhered to by moi! :frenchlol: Andy is the French player and I am Austrians. We have played the battle now three times and have switched sides twice to get a feel for the other player's dilemmas.

One good thing about a "Mixed Force Melee" is that if you get the cavalry attacking from one direction and the infantry from the other your cavalry can go off in all sorts of directions after that. Meanwhile, another fresh battalion can come up and stack with the Disordered battalion at least making sure that its not easy meat for a followup attack. That is unless Colin is attacking you with the French Old Guard cavalry! :frenchcharge:

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Infanterie-Brigade Hessen-Kassel
Königlich-Preußisches Armee-Korps
Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles series - John Tiller Software
http://friendsofwargaming.com/support-bill-peters.html


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 Post subject: Re: Melee with mixed force.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:32 am 
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Yes Bill is right spacing is crucial. On attack and defence. In the former a well played counter attack can cause your whole attack to be delayed by disorder and on defence similar problems and pursuits of course when gamey buggars like me and Andy roll in.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee with mixed force.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:46 am 
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Colin Knox wrote:
Yes Bill is right spacing is crucial. On attack and defence. In the former a well played counter attack can cause your whole attack to be delayed by disorder and on defence similar problems and pursuits of course when gamey buggars like me and Andy roll in.



Perhaps a few screen shots would clear this up for me.

When u hear "mixed force" i am thinking infantry and cavalry stacked together. Both would be disordered thus reducing melee effectiveness.

Also, screen shots would clarify the spacing aspect being mentioned.

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 Post subject: Re: Melee with mixed force.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:59 am 
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John.

Not really. You can have infantry in one hex, and charging cavalry in another adjacent hex, or several hexes. You simply Add To Melee the relevant stacks. Neither are disordered until after the initial melee.


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 Post subject: Re: Melee with mixed force.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:31 am 
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As regards spacing its pretty straight forward. When a unit loses a melee it has to take a morale test.
If it routs all adjacent units must also take a morale test. Which means they are all disordered and some may rout as well further spreading the disorder.

The solution is to have layers in your attack or defence allowing for the fact units may be pushed back and then rout. Thus helping you avoid widespread disorder.

So typically you need a 2 hex gap behind your front line, but sometimes more, particularly if your enemy has a lot of cavalry around. A large number of cav allows your opponent to take deeper penetration risks as he has troops available for follow up and rescue missions if you isolate him after his 'deep attack'.

The best defence in this situation is infantry in squares in a checker board type formation with artillery. Pretty much like Welly did at that battle I hate talking about (but love reading about).
I am also plotting a battlefield visit there this year as part of a business trip.

Hope that helps John and you are well!

Regards
Colin

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 Post subject: Re: Melee with mixed force.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:50 am 
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So 2 hexes between front and back..

2 hexes between units on the same line?

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 Post subject: Re: Melee with mixed force.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:19 am 
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Yes, John, and sometimes even more. Remember that cavalry can follow up as much as two hexes and then attack a unit in the 3rd hex.

I always suggest a 4 hex gap if you are not going to be in square. And expect routs. Routed units run towards friendly units since John changed the rout path code so that they dont run all over the place. Thus if a D rated unit is at the front remember it will head towards the closest unit in its path. Best not make that a Guard unit or else it could disorder it by passing through.

Andy and I are trading cavalry charges in our Messkirch 1800 playtest game. What a great battle. Glad I took the time to put this new game together. So many interesting battles in it.

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General der Kavallerie Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz
Husaren-Regiment Hessen-Kassel
Infanterie-Brigade Hessen-Kassel
Königlich-Preußisches Armee-Korps
Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles series - John Tiller Software
http://friendsofwargaming.com/support-bill-peters.html


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