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 Post subject: Counter Charging in HPS Games
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:59 pm 

Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:18 am
Posts: 5523
Since the inception of the rule in the BG system I have always viewed the counter charge rule as a duel edged variant: the counter charge never met the cavalry halfway - they were able to key on charging cavalry and that before they even got going!

If I were to bring before John a counter-charge rule here is my idea on the topic:

Cavalry will counter charge if faced by cavalry that is charging into any adjacent hex of their position in their charge-cone (i.e. 60 degree frontal arc) based on two tests:

1. 70 percent chance to try.

2. Morale test - if passed they will counter charge. If they fail then they are NOT disordered. (this is to stop folks from drawing your cavalry, see them fail and then attack them).

If they pass then they meet the cavalry in one of the adjcent hexes and are ADDED TO THE DEFENSE OF THAT STACK.

Thus if a battery is attacked and the cavalry is adjacent to the battery AND pass both tests successfully then the cavalry will move to that hex and defend with the battery.

The CHARGE BONUS FOR CHARGING CAVALRY WILL BE NEGATED if the defending cavalry is at least 75 percent the size of the attackers.

Countercharging cavalry will NEVER move into a hex that has infantry in it. Thus cavarlry will not be used to countercharge to stop charges against their own infantry but they could reinforce squardons, batteries, wagons, leaders (Napoleon!).

Thus the concept of a countercharge - cavalry intercepting other charging cavalry - is preserved. The Phasing player's charging cavalry takes several hexes before its horses are at full gallop - probably just the last one or two hexes would be at a gallop - and the defender's cavalry needed time to recognize the attack for what it was.


Oberst-Lt Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Austrian Army

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:51 pm
Posts: 144
Location: Brisbane, Australia
The logic for a localised defence is sensible. There is a danger of unscrupulous players (and I may well number myself amongst them) who might use decoys, to provoke a countercharge and destroy the immediate potential of the countercharging cavalry - or even draw them into a trap. But idiot cavalry commanders were not unknown in the era and the AI might replicate that. Perhaps the patch might include a preference with regard to coutercharging. That is, if the cavalry had firm instructions NOT to countercharge, the percentage could be say 40% rather than 70%.

Capitaine Neville Worland
7ème Régiment de Dragons
Ier Corps de Réserve de Cavalerie
Army du Nord

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:37 pm 

Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 9:12 am
Posts: 1251
Location: United Kingdom
Well this is the third issue I've had with HPS games. I'd certainly like to see it included as an optional rule. Again as for the mechanics I think it must depend on size of threatening unit.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:33 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 3:21 pm
Posts: 232
With the single phase system, would it be necessary for the non-phasing player to have "ordered" his cavalry to counter-charge? Or would this be a random decision made by the computer, since the cavalry commander is assumed to act on his own initiative? After all there wouldn't be time to pass a message back to the C-in-C and wait for his orders.

In addition, how about a bit of firepower for cavalry. This wouldn't require an engine change and issuing non-lance cavalry with carbines or dragoons with muskets won't make a big difference. But most cavalry did have some sort of firearm and even a handful of casualties is better than none, especially when the cavalry is otherwise caught in a defenceless situation. In particular, light cavalry piquets might skirmish with each other - perhaps rather a waste of time, but it should be feasible. (I've conducted various tests with cavalry firepower and it is possible to inflict a few losses and, very occasionally disruption too)

Surely at least some dragoons should be capable of fighting dismounted, so a new ACW type of cavalry to represent dragoons would be very welcome. This shouldn't be too difficult - just cut & paste the troop type over from the ACW engine or else duplicate horse artillery ("C" troop type) and recode it as "D" troop type dragoon cavalry instead, eg:


I'd also very much like to see "square forming" taking place as a <i>non-phasing reaction </i>to an enemy cavalry charge (instead of having to be placed in square in the previous player turn). Since infantry can <b>fire</b> defensively, perhaps if enemy cavalry was moving towards them they might have a chance of forming square instead. In other words there'd be a chance - depending on troop quality - that the infantry would form square before the cavalry reached them. Of course if the infantry successfully formed square, the active player might have the chance to stop the charge or move the cavalry to attack a different target within its charge range that had failed to form square or was incapable of doing so (eg. militia, skirmishers, disrupted infantry)

Lt Rich White
4th Cavalry Brigade
Cavalry Corps
Anglo-Allied Army

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:34 am 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ndworl</i>
<br /> (...) That is, if the cavalry had firm instructions NOT to countercharge, the percentage could be say 40% rather than 70%.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I agree with Neville and I have a question to add: Historically speaking, would the cavalry squadron have countercharged if there was not a leader in the stack, giving orders to?

I have this suggestion to avoid any "over-complexification" of the engine: in order to give firm orders not to copuntercharge, someone should only have to turn the leader's facing in an other direction than the aproaching cavalry! Wouldn't it make it easier to program? [^]

[url="mailto:pyguinard@hotmail.com"]Lt Pierre-Yves Guinard[/url],
6e Division, II Corp

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