Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Gentlemen.
Do we really need another Waterloo Game.
My reasoning
1) Its been done to death [B)]
2) Cobexlaw has a great and "gentle on the eye" mod with the HPS Engine.[;)]
3) Can you really drag an interesting Campaign out of it compared with Eckmuhl or NRC[:0]
4) Will it attract new people to the game[?] If they havnt been attracted by now NO[:(]
5) Could not all that time and effort by a great team been more usfully spent on something original.[:I]
6)Whats Original
a) Spain any one of four years
b) Prussia 1813
c) Invassion of France 1814
Oh sorry the French lost all these, forget 6)[:o)]

Well cant get more controversial without swear words[}:)]



Field Marshal Sir "Lucky" Jim (K.G.)
Army Commander
Allied/Dutch Army

"And let my sword not sleep in my hand"

Jim....

When is thsi new waterloo game due and who is creating it ?

My answer is yes.... We keep making them until I win one :>

General John Corbin
Commandant of Cadets
L'Ecole de Mars
L'Armee du Rhin

Still happy to see a Waterloo game, still my favourite napoleonic campaign ( suppose because it got me into the Napoleonic period as I you kid of 10 years old or less maybe[:0].)

Also I think it might get more members joining as it's the most famous (thanks to the movies and 100's of books.) of all the campaigns, I suppose like Gettysburg is to the ACW.
Plus the little corporal got his comeuppance at last.[:D]
Though would be happy to see a lot of Peninsular war titles afterwards, and maybe a 1813 campaign Germany in two parts.[:)]

Col. Hargreaves,
4ème Régiment de Dragons
AdN.

Jim,
I completely agree with you.
Let's hope, that the next HPS Nap. title won't be the boring Waterloo again [}:)]
That would be really sad and a total disappointment!

<center>Maréchal T. Nowacki
<b>V KORPUS ARMII RENU</b>

Comte de Liege
Duc de la Moskova

Chasseurs a Cheval de la Vieille Garde</center>

[8D]Jim I agree completely. Any of the campaigns would be much better suited especialy the Spain/Portugal.



Major Ed Blackburn
1/50th West Kent, 6th Div, II Corps, AAA

I think a campaign Waterloo would be great, If they could make it a big one Like HPS did with Gettysburg. It could add alot of what ifs, Say Napoleon leaves Ney, but takes Davout with him, or Suachet. Dump Grouchy and have Soult command a wing. Say he puts only a Cavalry Corps or two to follow the Prussians, but takes the rest with him. I think it could hold all kinds of possibilities.

Maréchal, Baron Tony Malone: 1ere/1ere Fusilier Chasseurs; CDR III Corps Armee Du Nord
"The Guard may die, But it never surrenders".

Marechal Malone's suggestion can easily be created by MODS, hell I could do it myself. I just need to tweak the NIA files I have.

I think other game could be more wisely spent like any of the ones Jim suggested. The rehashing of Waterloo has been done in 4 seperate MODS now. If it gets new members great!! But wouldn't we get them already with BG Waterloo still being widely available over the other 2??

I just think they should do something different afterwards. HPS appears to be rehasing BG now, I could think of many games more exciting than Gettysburg and Waterloo.

<center>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com"]<b>Generallieutenant Scott Ludwig</b>[/url]

Kommandeur
[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/3IFB.htm"]3. Infanterie-Brigade[/url]
I. Armee Korps
Heer am Niederrhein
Preußische Armee

Aide-du-Camp
I. Armee Korps
Heer am Niederrhein
Preußische Armee

[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com"]Preußische Armee Webmaster[/url]



GroßHerzog von Saxe-Weimar
(Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar)
</center>

Well I bought HPS Campaign Gettysburg and I'd definately buy Waterloo too. But yes I agree that a Peninsular game or two would be really nice, or the other campaigns Jim mentioned.

<font color="gold">Major Antony Barlow
CO, 2nd British (Union) Brigade, Anglo-Allied Cavalry Corps.
Guards: 4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon Guards.</font id="gold">

Gentlemen,

YES, we absolutely need another Waterloo game. Why?

MY reasoning:
1) It's a famous battle and campaign, but there are no interesting NEW games/game engines portraying it at the moment (I lost my interest in BG Waterloo many years ago).

2) No HPS mod can do justice to the campaign, as they are using an old and absolutely superceded version of Tiller's Nap engine.

3) The Waterloo campaign was not the largest of the Napoleonic campaigns - and the Russian campaign is my favourite - but with all the what-if possibilities present the game's campaign could be very interesting indeed (look what Drew did with the Corinth campaign).

4) New people/wargamers will be attracted to the game. A famous campaign and battle.... Say no more! I am totally convinced that many people will buy the game because of that.

5) And I think several OTHER teams are working on OTHER Nap campaigns. So you lot will probably get your peninsular battles to tinker with, your Leipzigs to get overwhelmed by, etc..... [:D]

I, for one, am eagerly awaiting this game!

Regards



Major Atle Jenssen
Prince Regent's Hussars
Hanoverian Brigade
Cavalry Corps
Anglo Allied Army

I agree with Jim on this one.

Waterloo was barely a campaign, unless we can have a map showing Napoleon marching from the south coast all the way to Paris [:D]

There were 2 x 2 battles, fought over 4 days making it shorter than the Prussian capitulation in 1806.

It is famous only because it was the last.

The army was not as big as that used in the campaigns of 1805, 1806, 1807, 1809, 1812 or 1813.

The only reason I can see for a new Waterloo is for a new game engine and only then as a way of introducing the engine to the market before delivering some of the less well covered campaigns.

Regards

Mark

Jim,

I respectfully beg to differ (and disagree with Mark for perhaps the first time), but do so out loud only because your last comment seems to request a response...

I see a different end result from your reasoning.
1) It's been done to death because people care and it's well balanced (some would say 'a near run thing'). There are numerous what-ifs that are fascinating and no matter which side you play, there is something interesting about your army.
2) I'd say that cobexlaw has pretty much every area covered so the fact that there is a Wloo version should not disqualify it from consideration. And the fact that the Wloo cobexlaw module is possibly the best done of the cobexlaw modules speaks to its popularity.
3) Given the famous 'what if's' there could be a lot of interesting campaign possiblities, especially if the what if's include a French victory @ Wloo and a discontinuation of the Allied commitment or some manevering what-ifs that put Nappy in Brussels before the Prussians march. I'll admit that 1813 would be a fascinating campaign (although giant!!!) though.
4) I disagree with this very strongly. Waterloo will bring in a lot more new people than the other possiblities. It's been a long time since BGW so a newbie will not recognize the overlap. And I don't think that newbies would be attracted to battles such as Dresden, Gross-Beeren, or Talavera no matter how familiar they are to the rest of us.
5) & 6). While I have no doubt that the kind folks at HPS can overcome these difficulties if they set their minds to them, I would have some strong doubts about the alternatives that you gave.

Spain - Not sure any single year (other than maybe 1813-1814) had enough action or conclusiveness to make a campaign series game. And of course 1814 was a series of one sided drubbings which would not lend itself to the sensitive psyche of our friends in ADN and ADR

Prussia 1813 - Again, this would be one that I would really like to see. However, there are a boatload of challenges that the geo-political backdrop would offer. It almost creates too many campaign trees, especially if you believe that Austria could actually end up on the French side! In any case, the sheer size is sure to scare the casual player or newbie away. As a case in point, I wonder what percentage of NRC campaigns have been played to conclusion (<i>ducks as Bill Peterson flings a CD-ROM at me</i>)

France 1814 - This is certainly an interesting idea, but until the game engine captures things like 'army level fatigue' or 'penalties for command foolishness' there will never be a game that will allow 20000 doughty grognards to consistently whoop up on 50000 wandering ruffians.

So, the way I see it, HPS could make a specialized game and milk another 49.99 out us regulars, or they could make Waterloo again, milk the 49.99 out of those same regulars and maybe pull in a few impulse purchasers. My heart agrees with you, but my head sees it their way.

OK, commence swearing...

<font color="orange">Peon Eric Voogd
Battaillon Nationale Militie No. 5
1e Brigade
2e Nederlandsche Divisie
I Corps
Anglo-Allied Army</font id="orange">

Oh how I wish I could comment...soon though...[B)]

Gen.de Div. Hamilton, 21st Division, VII Corps, ADR

I wish that HPS would model EVERY battle. Better yet model the entire map of Europe at the 100 yard hex level and then build the mother of all campaign games. Combine the resource aspects of the Microsoft Age of ..... games with the shifting alliances of Diplomacy.

Bavaria falls into the French camp they get next years draft of conscripts.

Who will the Italians line up with? This year?

Add a naval component and the French may yet be in the suburbs of London.

Every club member participates in one massive multi-player game where the results of one battle affect all.

Put the whole thing on-line to avoid hard drive issues.

I have seen the future...............

2nd Lt. Jon Graswich
<font color="red">11th Light Dragoons
4th Cavalry Brigade
Anglo-Allied Cavalry Corps</font id="red">

<i>Treu und Fest</i>
<i>Staunch and Steadfast</i>

Well whatever the new title John usually puts in new features, and no matter how good Stephane's work is, he can't. So I say let it be Waterloo, if need be, just let it be good. [:D]

Colonel (ret) Al Amos
1er Dragoons
AdN

Gentlemen
The Board has come to life again, get the barmaid from behind that book.
Oh by the way
7) Not enough nationalities involved, where are all those pretty uniforms Conf. of the Rhine, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Austria and Russia.

Field Marshal Sir "Lucky" Jim (K.G.)
Army Commander
Allied/Dutch Army

"And let my sword not sleep in my hand"