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 Post subject: Manual clarification
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:20 pm 
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I'm currently working now for the second time through the manual of campaign Leipzig(as the engines of the others are similar my question for sure fit o the other games of the Napoleonic series too) and still have some points I can't understand hopefully some members can enlighten me:

1. Page 37 of the Campaign Leipzig manual
"When a unit suffers casualties due to combat, it may be subject to a Morale
Check. This determination is based on a random number R from 0 to 1, the
number of casualties taken L, and the strength of the unit S. A base strength B
is calculated as
B = S / 10
If the base strength is less than 25, it is made equal to 25 (affecting units
whose strength is less than 250 men). The Morale Check is then triggered
when
R < L / (L + B)
For example, when a unit with 500 men takes a 25 man loss, the probability
that it will take a Morale Check is 1/3, equal to 25 / (25 + 50)."


Now how often is the test whether or not a Moral Check will be done conducted?
I wonder whether a unit makes the test instantly and each time when taking casualties or at the end of the turn or phase.

And the number between 0 and 1 is what?
I guess 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 and so on or what does that mean?


2. Page 38 of the Campaign Leipzig manual
"• If the unit is stacked with a Leader of the same organization or a higher
organization as the unit and if the Leadership rating of the Leader is
higher than the Morale value, the Morale value is set equal to that rating.
If the Leadership rating is already equal to the Morale value, then 1 is
added to the Morale value.
• If it is a Night turn, then the Morale value of the unit is divided by 2 with
fractions rounded up (for example 5 becomes 3).
• If it is a Day turn, then the Morale value may be affected by Corps and
Army Leaders in adjacent hexes using the same process for Leaders in
the same hex.
A random Die Roll from 1 to 6 is compared with the resulting Morale value, and
if the Die Roll is less than the Morale value, the unit becomes un-Routed."


The last paragraph keeps me wondering, does it mean we get the same procedure like in the first paragraph but if its an Corps and Army Leader it also works from an adjacent hex and you don't have to stack them with the unit?
If that is so I wonder if it would be beneficial to stack a brigade/division leader and place a corps/army leader adjacent and get an even higher chance of getting the unit out of its rout.
But I guess only one leader is used for that but again I nu clue who will be used, the best leader or the worst or random?


3. Page 41 of the Campaign Leipzig manual
"Recovering Fatigue
A unit may be eligible to recover Fatigue at the beginning of a player’s Turn
provided it has not Moved, Fire, participated in Melee, or been Fired upon with
any effect from the time of the player’s previous Turn. For each such unit a
random value from 0 to twice the applicable recovery rate, determined by
Parameter Data associated with the current battle, is subtracted from the unit’s
Fatigue value. See the Parameter Data Dialog in the Main Program Help File
for the recovery rate values."


Well taking the the PDT for the Getting Started scenario shows Day Recovery: 30% and Night Recovery: 80%.
So does it mean the unit could lower its fatigue value between 0 and 60 points(2x30%=60) or how is this calculated?


4. Page 46 of the Campaign Leipzig manual
"Artillery Modifier – a percentage modifier that affects non-indirect Artillery fire at ranges of at least 5 hexes."

So direct Artillery fire above 5 hexes or what?

PS I will add 2 more posts to get it all in and a bit more structured.

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Last edited by Christian Hecht on Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Manual clarification(Campaign Leipzig)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:30 pm 
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This post covers things not mentioned in the manual but that are roughly related to the Defensive Fire & Offensive Fire chapters, maybe someone has the background knowledge to answerer these points.

1. Can someone confirm that the Fire Value of Computer controlled defensive fire is halved?
At least from a bit testing I saw that Fire Values are usual 50% of the Fire Values I get when using the artillery in offensive fire.

Answer found in the Civil War series manual:
"When not using the Manual Defensive Fire Optional Rule, Defensive Fire occurs at 50% effectiveness."


2. Does anyone know how the Artillery Fire on infantry in line formation is "scaled" down for the other hit units in that hex?
I guess they just take X% of the initial fire that the first unit was hit with.

3. Similar to the above I would like to know how the Artillery Fire on infantry in column formation is "scaled" down for the other hit units in that hex when using the Optional Rule "Column Pass Through Fire"?

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Last edited by Christian Hecht on Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Manual clarification(Campaign Leipzig)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:30 pm 
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This post covers things related to Melee & Cavalry Charge.

1. Page 30 of the Campaign Leipzig manual
"• Routed and Isolated units have their defending strength divided by 2. However, units which are Routed and Isolated defend with a strength of 0."
So how is that part to understand? This part "defending strength divided by 2" and this "defend with a strength of 0" seem to contradict.

Answer found in the Civil War series manual:
There the sentence is "However, units that are both Routed and Isolated have a defending strength of 0." Both is the important word here.


2. Page 30 of the Campaign Leipzig manual
"Infantry units cannot Melee attack mounted Cavalry, except in Obstructed terrain."

So who exactly has to in the Obstructed terrain, the cavalry, the attacker or both?


3. Page 31/32 of the Campaign Leipzig manual
"• The defending units must not consist entirely of Infantry in Square formation with Leaders and/or Cavalry. However, if only Skirmishers, Artillery, and Supply Wagons occupy the defending hex with Infantry in Square, then the charge is negated.
• The defending units must not consist entirely of Skirmishers and Leaders in a Building hex.
• In the case of Cossack Cavalry units, the defending units must contain at least one Skirmisher unit, Routed unit, or Artillery unit."


So if only infantry in squares or infantry in squares with Skirmishers, Artillery and/or Supply Wagons occupy the defending hex the charge doesn't work and charge factor isn't used.
But what if there is infantry in squares with Cavalry, infantry in line and/or infantry in column formation, then the Charge works and charge factor is used?

And Skirmishers and Leaders in a Building hex with anything else but infantry in square would also led a charge work and it would get the charge factor for the melee?

And Cossack would only get the charge with charge factor if at least one Skirmisher unit, Routed unit or Artillery unit?


4. Page 22/23 of the Campaign Leipzig manual
"Cavalry Overruns
During a charge, Cavalry can possibly overrun Clear and Field hexes containing only enemy Skirmishers or uncrewed Artillery. When this is attempted, there is a chance that the enemy units will be eliminated. When the attempt fails, the Cavalry units are prevented from further movement in that turn (although they can melee attack in the same turn).
Cavalry will overrun defending Skirmishers whenever their strength is equal to or greater than the strength of the Skirmishers.
An overrun cannot occur if there is an Obstructed hexside between the Cavalry and the Skirmishers (see the Movement Phase for a discussion of Obstructed terrain).
Enemy leaders in hexes by themselves are automatically overrun and considered captured.
Enemy Supply Wagons by themselves are automatically overrun. They become captured but lose half their strength."


Here only Clear and Field hexes are mentioned as enabling cavalry to overrun Skirmishers and uncrewed Artillery but what about the other units, in what hexes can I overrun:
-Limbered Artillery
-Unlimbered Artillery
-Leaders
-Supply Wagons
I assume that overruns for these units don't work in every terrain.


5. Page 33 of the Campaign Leipzig manual
"Special Skirmisher Resolution
When Skirmishers are defending in melee against non-Skirmisher attackers, they take losses which are 1/5 of the normal value, but always retreat. If their attackers also consist of Skirmishers, then the attackers take 1/5 normal losses, but the retreat resolution is calculated normally. These special Skirmisher rules only apply when there is no more than 1/8 of the maximum stacking limit in the defending hex, or respectively in the total number of attackers."


Just to be clear here, the passage mentions Skirmishers losses of 1/5 when attacked by non-Skirmisher and that Skirmisher attacking Skirmisher also take 1/5 losses, but what would Skirmisher attacking non-Skirmisher take as losses and does the defender of a Skirmisher vs Skirmisher melee also take 1/5 losses?




So that is it, at least I hope so.
Sorry for so much stuff to read but I wasn't sure if all the manuals from all the games of the series are really identical and so I copied the passages from the Leipzig manual to be sure everyone knows what I'm talking about.
Thanks for anyone who takes time to works through this.


PS:
Can someone confirm that the terrain modifier that usually lowers the fire strength that hits a target hex will raise the "defending strength" in a melee when using the "Melee Terrain Modifiers"?


PPS:
Stumbled over another thing not mentioned in any way in the manual.
Elevation movement cost seem to be half as high when going from higher to lower ground.
Just tried it on the Austerlitz Getting Started scenario and when going with am infantry bat. in column formation from a clear hex down to a clear hex the costs are 5 points(4 clear hex + 1 elevation). but when reversing this movement it costs 6 points(4 clear hex + 2 elevation).
Elevation costs are 2 so it seems halved for going from high to low ground.
Can someone confirm this or do I miss a different modifier?

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La Grande Armée - IIIe Corps d'Armée - 3ème Division d'Infanterie
"Vive Napoleon!"

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Last edited by Christian Hecht on Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Manual clarification(Campaign Leipzig)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:08 am 
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Wow. I have to say I haven't read the manual and don't sit at the game with a calculator. I just throw the troops in and hope for the best, with a few rules of thumb.

A few non-mathematical ones I can answer.

1. Page 30 of the Campaign Leipzig manual
"• Routed and Isolated units have their defending strength divided by 2. However, units which are Routed and Isolated defend with a strength of 0.
• Supply Wagons defend against melee with a strength of 0."


Basically if you melee a routed or islolated unit you'll take casualties. If the unit is both isolated and routed you will not, and the unit will be automatically eliminated. As is the case for supply wagons.

Infantry units cannot Melee attack mounted Cavalry, except in Obstructed terrain."

The mounted cavalry can be meleed by infantry if the cavalry are in obstructed terrain

"• The defending units must not consist entirely of Infantry in Square formation with Leaders and/or Cavalry. However, if only Skirmishers, Artillery, and Supply Wagons occupy the defending hex with Infantry in Square, then the charge is negated.
• The defending units must not consist entirely of Skirmishers and Leaders in a Building hex.
• In the case of Cossack Cavalry units, the defending units must contain at least one Skirmisher unit, Routed unit, or Artillery unit."


Your interpretation is correct

"Cavalry Overruns
During a charge, Cavalry can possibly overrun Clear and Field hexes containing only enemy Skirmishers or uncrewed Artillery. When this is attempted, there is a chance that the enemy units will be eliminated. When the attempt fails, the Cavalry units are prevented from further movement in that turn (although they can melee attack in the same turn).
Cavalry will overrun defending Skirmishers whenever their strength is equal to or greater than the strength of the Skirmishers.
An overrun cannot occur if there is an Obstructed hexside between the Cavalry and the Skirmishers (see the Movement Phase for a discussion of Obstructed terrain).
Enemy leaders in hexes by themselves are automatically overrun and considered captured.
Enemy Supply Wagons by themselves are automatically overrun. They become captured but lose half their strength."


Yes, you can only automatically overrun limbered artillery, leaders and skirmishers in open terrain.

As far as I'm aware, now all the engines have been upgraded, the same rules apply now to all games.


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 Post subject: Re: Manual clarification(Campaign Leipzig)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:25 am 
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AFAIK, if a cavalry unit is stacked with an infantry unit, the stack may be meleed by infantry, in non-obstructed hexes.

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 Post subject: Re: Manual clarification(Campaign Leipzig)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:44 am 
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If cavalry is stacked with artillery you can also melee it with infantry. I think supply wagons too but I am not sure

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 Post subject: Re: Manual clarification(Campaign Leipzig)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:32 pm 
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Why would you want to melee them with supply wagons Jim? :shock: :shock:

I know your muleteers are tough but really? :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: Manual clarification(Campaign Leipzig)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:58 pm 
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Thanks for the answers, keep them coming.

@Andy Moss
Well I surely also don't use a calculator but I simply find it beneficial to know what the engine grants as positive or negative action.
Did already fall on my nose because I simply assumed something wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Manual clarification(Campaign Leipzig)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:12 pm 
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Updated the first 3 postings with the stuff I found out while on... vacation.

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 Post subject: Re: Manual clarification
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:08 am 
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Random number between 1 & 2 ........ Correct it is 1.1, 1.2 etc or even 1.000001, 1.000002, etc. It is a long time since I have done any programming i.e. before Windows loaded straight into the computer instead of having to be launched once computer was turned on. But I recall the way the random number generator works has something to do with the wording of that bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Manual clarification
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:31 pm 
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Now something I discovered in my recent Austerlitz game.

There is to be a penalty when meleeing with dismounted Dragoons, nothing in that direction can be found in the manual nor did any other penalties apply. The effective strength seems to be 75%. Same counts for firing.
Now there is a rule in the CW series after which dismounted cavalry conducts fire & melee only at 75% strength to depict that the other men take care of the horses, that seems to apply here too.
But the Austerlitz manual doesn't mention it in any way.
Maybe someone is able to confirm that there is such a rule in the Napi series too.

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