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| Seeing into wooded hexes from a far http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24162 |
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| Author: | Rich Walker [ Sat Apr 18, 2026 5:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Seeing into wooded hexes from a far |
This thought occurred to me. Some maps have thick wooded areas and in certain areas those inside these areas can see out over considerable distances. OK, this seems right to me. BUT, should those on the outside be allowed to see into a wooded hex? For example, the Chickamauga map has a lot of wooded area. In there are many areas where a unit can see out over a long distance. Should those on the outside be able to equally see in? Food for thought! |
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| Author: | Quaama [ Sat Apr 18, 2026 6:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Seeing into wooded hexes from a far |
I say 'Yes'. After all you are spotting an entire unit or units (not usually a few men) so it could be up to 1,000 men that you are 'seeing'. Not that hard in a 125 yard square area. Also, they could get inventive in what was done in order to spot the enemy. In William J. Miller's 'Mapping for Stonewall: The Civil War Service of Jed Hotchkiss' Miller describes some of the roles undertaken by Hotchkiss as Jackson's cartographer. One such incident was the following: On the morning of 30 April 1862, Jackson sent Hotchkiss (with a bed sheet) to climb to the peak at the southern end on Massanutten Mountain. At 0100 that day Hotchkiss (and Company E, 10th Virginia Infantry) set off to climb the mountain. He reached the summit at 0500. From there he could observe the movements down in the valley and the Federal positions near Harrisonburg. Hotchkiss waved the sheet, according to a prearranged code he and Jackson had decided upon, to inform Jackson of what was happening in the Valley. [Based upon Hotchkiss' information there was no battle and Jackson marched away to later appear at McDowell, and we know what happened there on 8 May.] After I first read that I looked around to see if I could find the code. I'm confident I found it. It was recorded upside down in the back of one of Hotchkiss' notebooks which can be found here - https://www.loc.gov/resource/g3880m.gcwh0005/?sp=44&r=-0.132,0,1.262,0.757,180. Interestingly, the simpler 'semaphore' movements were reserved for the more common letters (e.g. 'e' is moving the flag just once to the left whereas 'q' requires a move to the right then left and then two more to the right). I'm a big admirer of Hotchkiss. As I think I've mentioned in these forums before it was Hotchkiss who drafted the incredibly detailed map of the Shenandoah which, together with Hotchkiss' notes and advice, provided Jackson with a great advantage in moving around the Valley. It was also Hotchkiss who discovered the routs for Jackson to take at Chancellorsville. |
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| Author: | Rich Walker [ Sat Apr 18, 2026 11:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Seeing into wooded hexes from a far |
Quaama wrote: I say 'Yes'. After all you are spotting an entire unit or units (not usually a few men) so it could be up to 1,000 men that you are 'seeing'. Not that hard in a 125 yard square area. Also, they could get inventive in what was done in order to spot the enemy. In William J. Miller's 'Mapping for Stonewall: The Civil War Service of Jed Hotchkiss' Miller describes some of the roles undertaken by Hotchkiss as Jackson's cartographer. One such incident was the following: On the morning of 30 April 1862, Jackson sent Hotchkiss (with a bed sheet) to climb to the peak at the southern end on Massanutten Mountain. At 0100 that day Hotchkiss (and Company E, 10th Virginia Infantry) set off to climb the mountain. He reached the summit at 0500. From there he could observe the movements down in the valley and the Federal positions near Harrisonburg. Hotchkiss waved the sheet, according to a prearranged code he and Jackson had decided upon, to inform Jackson of what was happening in the Valley. [Based upon Hotchkiss' information there was no battle and Jackson marched away to later appear at McDowell, and we know what happened there on 8 May.] After I first read that I looked around to see if I could find the code. I'm confident I found it. It was recorded upside down in the back of one of Hotchkiss' notebooks which can be found here - https://www.loc.gov/resource/g3880m.gcwh0005/?sp=44&r=-0.132,0,1.262,0.757,180. Interestingly, the simpler 'semaphore' movements were reserved for the more common letters (e.g. 'e' is moving the flag just once to the left whereas 'q' requires a move to the right then left and then two more to the right). I'm a big admirer of Hotchkiss. As I think I've mentioned in these forums before it was Hotchkiss who drafted the incredibly detailed map of the Shenandoah which, together with Hotchkiss' notes and advice, provided Jackson with a great advantage in moving around the Valley. It was also Hotchkiss who discovered the routs for Jackson to take at Chancellorsville. Your example doesn't really address what I am saying. And the program does not distinguish unit sizes. |
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| Author: | Quaama [ Sun Apr 19, 2026 12:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Seeing into wooded hexes from a far |
Rich Walker wrote: Your example doesn't really address what I am saying. And the program does not distinguish unit sizes. Yes, they should be able to see in. Commanders would send men to the top of the tallest tree of the highest hill in order to see what they could see. As the game does not distinguish between unit sizes under LoS rules, it's a case that they see all or they see none. I think they should see whatever the LoS permits. Units in forest can still be hidden by a combination of LoS and lack of elevation. Others may think differently and think they should see nothing. Also, a forest hex is a forest hex. There is nothing to distinguish between a sparsely wooded area and one that is covered with trees close together. As there is no distinction then LoS and elevation seem sufficient for game purposes. [I was once in a mature pine plantation, it was dark in there even in the middle of the day. I don't see how anyone could see what's happening on the ground in such a situation no matter how high a hill they were on and how many men were moving on the ground. It was also eerily quiet, none of our local wildlife could live there, neither could any low growing plants.] |
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| Author: | mihalik [ Sun Apr 19, 2026 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Seeing into wooded hexes from a far |
What immediately popped into mind when I saw this was the fate of Iverson's Brigade at Gettysburg. Whether this was an outlier or more common I do not know, but the outcome was devastating. http://www.gdg.org/Gettysburg%20Magazine/iverson.html One of the neat features of EFOW is that by deploying skirmishers you can get more information on units in woods. Mike |
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