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| A Question of "Ethics"/gamemanship https://www.wargame.ch/board/cc/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2477 |
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| Author: | Gary McClellan [ Sun Jul 28, 2002 8:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | A Question of "Ethics"/gamemanship |
In a couple of my recent games, the habit of bad troops to start losing hordes of stragglers when routing again has been a major factor (in my favor). I've found myself taking potshots at routed units lately to "encourage" this sort of behavior (especially with artillery). My question is, is this considered "unethical" or "gamemanship" or is it legit? I'm willing to quit it (within reason, I mean if the only shot one of my units has is a routed unit, I fully intend to take advantage of it regardless). Just wanted to throw this out. Lt Gary McClellan 12th Virgina Light Dragoons CO Northern Department |
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| Author: | Rich Hamilton [ Sun Jul 28, 2002 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Gary, Personally, this is a practice I have too...I mean, if a portion of my opponents army is running away, I see no reason why a few shells shouldn't be lobbed at them to encourage their departure. That's less troops I have to face later on. I consider it the commanders responsibility to gather his troops out of LOS to regroup and reorder. They are paniced men after all, so you would want them in a safe area to get them back under control. That's my two cents anyway... Rich <HTML> Lt. Col. Hamilton, New York Militia</HTML> |
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| Author: | 239 [ Sun Jul 28, 2002 9:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
My good sir, I see no problem. As Lt. Col Hamilton put it "encourage their departure". I think this not only right, but historical as well. Certainly a commander wouldn't say, "Oh look, the enemy is running, let us not shoot at them!" unless he were Lord Howe of course. I mostly see it as an opportunity for arty and rifles if the situation allows. I mean would you fire away at running militia while you have the Foot Guards directly in your front? Ensign Hopper 21st Infantry |
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| Author: | Al Amos [ Sun Jul 28, 2002 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Gary, In the latter half of the 1800's German tactics called for "Pursuit Fire". Instead of physically pursuing an enemy unit that was withdrawing they would be order to redouble their fire to 'encourage' the enemy to continue thier withdraw. Napoleon at Austerlitz directed batteries to fire upon the troops fleeing across the ice to prevent them from reforming (wouldn't a man falling through broken ice be considered as a lost straggler?) I see nothing wrong with it. Perhaps in later versions of John's campaign engines he can have 'lost stragglers' tracked per unit so that they (or a part of them) will rejoin ranks for the next battle. Lt. Col. Al Amos 1st U.S. Dragoons 1812-R |
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| Author: | D.S. Walter [ Sun Jul 28, 2002 10:44 am ] |
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I do it, too ... I have too often been the victim of excessive straggling to spare my opponents the trouble. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Though I think in fact historically you wouldn't have ignored a target representing a more immediate danger. <font color=gold>Colonel D.S. Walter O.S.M. Commanding The King's Own (4th) Regiment of Foot Aide-de-camp, Royal North American Corps</font id=gold> |
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| Author: | Levi Neal [ Sun Jul 28, 2002 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I agree with everyone else. This is just a part of the game. My opponet has the same oppurtunity to fire on my routed units. So I see why not take advantage of this. Also in the historical context, I'm sure a commander would take a pot shot to aide a retreating unit off the field. I find this practice perfectly alright. Private Levi Neal 3rd Regiment (Delaware Regiment) 1st Brigade 2nd Division Northern Department Colonial Army |
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| Author: | bigjimou [ Sun Jul 28, 2002 2:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'd like to second everyone else's opinion. Unless your opponent expressly says he has a problem with it go for it. I don't think that you would have seen commanders trying to regroup their soldiers right in front of firing enemy troops unless they were being covered by friendlies. If he's attempting to do that, I see no reason why you shouldn't teach him a lesson in where to regroup. =) Private Jim Johnson 2nd Continental Light Dragoons Northern Dept. Continental Army |
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| Author: | Rich Hamilton [ Sun Jul 28, 2002 3:06 pm ] |
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Al, If I'm not mistaken the "rejoining" aspect is already modeled in the campaign games. I had better than 1000 men rejoin my force in a Corinth campaign just a few day's ago. Rich <HTML> Lt. Col. Hamilton, New York Militia</HTML> |
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| Author: | Al Amos [ Sun Jul 28, 2002 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Rich, As I understand it if regiment A has 1,000 men in the oob, and takes 600 losses in battle one then in battle two it will only have 400 men, providing the designer placed it at full strength in battle two. It matters not if the losses were from fire or stragglers. Now John does have units that are entirely wiped out set to return at approximately 15% strength. I'm not aware that he had made any changes to that basic set up. Its great news if he did. Lt. Col. Al Amos 1st U.S. Dragoons 1812-R |
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| Author: | Gary McClellan [ Sun Jul 28, 2002 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ah, then I don't need to feel vaguely guilty when I do it then <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle> Lt Gary McClellan 12th Virgina Light Dragoons CO Northern Department |
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| Author: | Ernie Sands [ Sun Jul 28, 2002 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
If you have LOS and want to expend ammo, firing at any unit is fine, including those pesky leaders setting on high ground. Not much of a chance of hitting them, but there IS a chance. I try to move my routed units to a rear area where I have leaders available to attempt to rally them. <b><font color=gold>Ernie Sands BGen, 3rd East Kent,CCC President, Colonial Camp Club Col,1 Konig,VIII,AdR LtGen,CO XXIII Corps AoO Sch,183Inf,VIII,PzC Pvt B Co, 3/3-MBC </b></font id=gold> |
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| Author: | Stefan Reuter [ Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:49 am ] |
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My God<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> Firing on routed men? Where is your sportsmanship? I think you firing on drummers and pipers too. I have expect this from the Rebels but you Col. Walters? <font color=gold>Lt.Colonel Reuter D.S.M. 1. Regiment (Royal Scots) Royal North American Corps</font id=gold> Edited by - Stefan Reuter on 07/29/2002 12:50:02 |
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| Author: | 780 [ Mon Jul 29, 2002 11:46 am ] |
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I remember Gen. Patton telling his men to never retreat from a fight as the artillery was better able to fire on retreating men than on advancing troops. If Patton said it was alright and his great grandfather was in these wars then I think that Gary M. can do it too! And it was GERMAN artillery that would fire on Patton's retreating troops! Another note - Al and Rich - I did extensive testing and indeed in the Napoleonic campaign engine the troops do recover fully from fatigue but very little in strength. Usually the engine picks one unit to really max out. I dont know if this has changed for the better or if the 1776/1812 engine does this as well. Guess it is time for me to get out my spreadsheet, toss a scenario or two together and see if I can find out. Maj. Bill Peters, Morgan's Rifles, American Army Commander of French Dept. |
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