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Alternate pdt
https://www.wargame.ch/board/cc/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3923		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Richard [ Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:58 am ]
Post subject:  Alternate pdt
How many players are familiar with the alternate pdt file that effectively doubles firepower at close range? Do you use this pdt in some, all or none of your games? How does it influence your tactics? Do you prefer it to the "standard" pdt? Do you reckon it's more or perhaps less realistic? Does it tend to produce a quicker-paced game?

This variant pdt file was introduced in 1812 and is also present in FIW, but hasn't been added to 1776 as far as I know, except in a few custom-made scenarios.

Is anyone interested in setting up a committee to play-test the alternate pdt to see what impact it has on game-play and whether it is likely to produce a better, or faster-paced, game than the standard pdt?


Maj. Rich White
28th North Glos Rgt
Right Wing
British Army 1776
Author:  D.S. Walter [ Fri Dec 19, 2003 7:56 am ]
Post subject: 
I have alternate PDT games with three or four opponents at this time. I like it a lot. Don't know if my opponents do. [:D]
Author:  Thomas Callmeyer [ Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Alternate PDT? How does one access it?

Cpl. Thomas Callmeyer
1 Div/ 1st Brig
2nd Conn State
Grand Army
Contineantal Armies
Author:  858 [ Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, I've been Pdt'ed by Dierk alright.[B)] Can't say as I have learned much, yet. I would be curious to hear what experience other people have had with the game set to "bloodbath."
Author:  D.S. Walter [ Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
OK You may want to invite comments from Ed Blackburn, Mike Davies, and Dan Armenta. I have alternate PDT games with all of them. [8)]
Author:  Al Amos [ Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here is a pdt set that I've been massaging over the past couple of years.

General Data
Title: F&I War Clear/Dry PDT File
First Side: British

Time Parameters
Dawn: 4:30 Dusk: 20:30
Day Turn: 5 minutes Night Turn: 10 minutes
Hours of Twilight: 8 Twilight Visibility: 42 hexes

Stacking Parameters
Max Stacking: 200 men Max Counters: 12 Strength Point: 25 men

French Command Distances
Regiment: 3 hexes Brigade: 12 hexes

British Command Distances
Regiment: 3 hexes Brigade: 12 hexes

Fatigue Parameters
Max Fatigue: 90 Day Recovery: 30% Night Recovery: 60%

Movement Parameters
Infantry Allow: 24 Cavalry Allow: 36 Artillery Allow: 24 Supply Allow: 24
French Line Disruption: 3% British Line Disruption: 2%

Line Infantry Movement Costs
Blocked: 0 Clear: 6 Water: 0 Forest: 12
Orchard: 12 Marsh: 8 Town: 6 Field: 6
Rough: 8 Building: 6 Trail: 0 Road: 0
Stream: 3 Creek: 0 Fence: 6 Stone: 24
Embank: 0 Elevation: 6

Column Infantry Movement Costs
Blocked: 0 Clear: 4 Water: 4 Forest: 6
Orchard: 4 Marsh: 6 Town: 4 Field: 4
Rough: 6 Building: 4 Trail: 4 Road: 2
Stream: 2 Creek: 0 Fence: 4 Stone: 24
Embank: 0 Elevation: 4

Mounted Cavalry Movement Costs
Blocked: 0 Clear: 4 Water: 6 Forest: 9
Orchard: 6 Marsh: 9 Town: 4 Field: 4
Rough: 6 Building: 4 Trail: 4 Road: 2
Stream: 2 Creek: 0 Fence: 4 Stone: 36
Embank: 0 Elevation: 6

Artillery Movement Costs
Blocked: 0 Clear: 6 Water: 6 Forest: 0
Orchard: 12 Marsh: 0 Town: 6 Field: 6
Rough: 12 Building: 6 Trail: 6 Road: 4
Stream: 6 Creek: 0 Fence: 0 Stone: 0
Embank: 0 Elevation: 6

Supply Wagon Movement Costs
Blocked: 0 Clear: 6 Water: 6 Forest: 0
Orchard: 12 Marsh: 0 Town: 6 Field: 6
Rough: 12 Building: 6 Trail: 6 Road: 4
Stream: 6 Creek: 0 Fence: 0 Stone: 0
Embank: 0 Elevation: 6

Change Facing Costs
Infantry: 2 Cavalry: 4 Artillery: 4

About Face Costs
Infantry: 2 Cavalry: 4 Artillery: 4

Formation Change Costs
Infantry: 4 Cavalry: 4 Artillery: 6

French Ammo Loss
Infantry: 1% Artillery: 12%

British Ammo Loss
Infantry: 1% Artillery: 12%

Fire Modifiers
Enfiladed: 20% Cavalry: 10%

Terrain Combat Modifiers
Blocked: 0% Clear: 0% Water: -20% Forest: -40%
Orchard: -20% Marsh: -10% Town: -40% Field: -10%
Rough: -10% Building: -20% Trail: 0% Road: 0%
Stream: 0% Creek: 0% Fence: -20% Stone: -40%
Embank: -20% Elevation: -10%

French Leader Loss Values
Fire Wound: 2% Fire Kill: 3%
Melee Wound: 3% Melee Kill: 4% Melee Capture: 5%

British Leader Loss Values
Fire Wound: 2% Fire Kill: 3%
Melee Wound: 3% Melee Kill: 4% Melee Capture: 5%

Height Values
Blocked: 0ft Clear: 0ft Water: 0ft Forest: 36ft
Orchard: 18ft Marsh: 0ft Town: 12ft Field: 6ft
Rough: 3ft Building: 18ft Man: 6ft

Breastworks Values
Movement: 12 Combat: -40%

Artillery Resupply Values
French: 24 British: 24

Weapon Data
Rifle:
8 at 1 hex
4 at 3 hexes
2 at 6 hexes
1 at 9 hexes

Carbine:
12 at 1 hex
6 at 2 hexes
1 at 6 hexes

Small Arms:
9 at 1 hex
1 at 3 hexes

18 Pounder:
18 at 1 hex
36 at 6 hexes
9 at 18 hexes
1 at 48 hexes

4 Pounder:
4 at 1 hex
8 at 3 hexes
2 at 12 hexes
1 at 24 hexes

8 Pounder:
8 at 1 hex
16 at 6 hexes
4 at 12 hexes
1 at 36 hexes

Howitzer:
8 at 1 hex
16 at 3 hexes
1 at 18 hexes
4 at 36 hexes

Hvy Mortar:
24 at 1 hex
48 at 3 hexes
1 at 18 hexes
12 at 36 hexes

Musket
(No Bayonet):
12 at 1 hex
6 at 2 hexes
3 at 3 hexes
1 at 6 hexes

Musket:
12 at 1 hex
6 at 2 hexes
3 at 3 hexes
1 at 6 hexes

9 Pounder:
9 at 1 hex
18 at 6 hexes
4 at 12 hexes
1 at 36 hexes

2 Pounder:
2 at 1 hex
4 at 3 hexes
1 at 12 hexes

P Weapon:
1 at 1 hex

Rifle
(No Bayonet):
8 at 1 hex
4 at 3 hexes
2 at 6 hexes
1 at 9 hexes

6 Pounder:
6 at 1 hex
12 at 3 hexes
3 at 12 hexes
1 at 24 hexes

3 Pounder:
3 at 1 hex
6 at 3 hexes
1 at 12 hexes

Mortar:
12 at 1 hex
24 at 3 hexes
1 at 18 hexes
6 at 36 hexes

12 Pounder:
12 at 1 hex
24 at 6 hexes
6 at 18 hexes
1 at 48 hexes

Swivel Gun:
2 at 1 hex
4 at 3 hexes
1 at 12 hexes

16 Pounder:
16 at 1 hex
32 at 6 hexes
8 at 18 hexes
1 at 48 hexes

24 Pounder:
24 at 1 hex
48 at 6 hexes
12 at 18 hexes
1 at 48 hexes

32 Pounder:
32 at 1 hex
64 at 6 hexes
16 at 18 hexes
1 at 48 hexes

I like the feel of the game using this one.

The ranges encourage players to stay more than three hexes away until they are ready to committ them to a charge or a firefight.

Cannons can deal out some punishment.

Higher qualtiy units can move in line pivot, multi-hex units in line can wheel, bns can move in mutli-hex series of lines with the reduced Disruption in Line factor, while the poor trained tend to stumble about.

Wagons and Artillery can move along roads at the speed of infantry moving in column in open terrain, allowing players to march troops more historically .... that being with infantry in 'columns of march' on both sides of the road, and the trains staying on the roads.

Using the Horse Artillery unit type for 6 lb guns and lighter, battalion guns have enough mobility to keep pace with battalion moving cross country in line of battle. Heavier pieces have less mobility cross country, as do wagons tying them more and more to roads and trails.

Changing the chance of disruption while in line for forest and orchard terrain types allow light and heavy woods to be represented in games. Forests are set to automatically disrupt units, while in orchards (light woods) there is only a chance it would happen.

Setting movement rates to 0 for embankment hexes allows forts to be designed so that bastions can't be taken by melee from the outside, but leaving walls so they can.

Dividing the hours of daylight into only Dawn and Dusk allow hidden movement on larger maps. I have visibility set for 1 mile, 42 hexes.

Effective artillery range is shorten to around 1,000 yards (24 hexes) which allows armies to safely deploy in battle array.

The break points for artillery hit factors is more standardized so that players can better calculate effective ranges for the various guns.

Howitzers have a more prominent 'dead zone.'

Cavalry has enhanced melee capabilies.

Units recover a bit better.

Lowered heights of terrain types allow more interesting LOS, and allows more hilltop to hilltop sightings.

Lots of interesting neuances, situations and possibilities arise with this pdt file.

I have used it in many of my new scenarios....'River Crossing', 'A Grand Affair', and 'AARW_1.'
Author:  zinkyusa [ Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:19 am ]
Post subject: 
[8D]I'm still deciding about the alternate PDT. I've been playing Gen. Walter with the alt pdt on in three games. It certainly makes one think carefully about closing with a large stack of infantry. In our first match which was FIW, I enjoyed having it on. The results at 1 or 2 hexes were much more dramatic and realistic (IMHO). One or two volleys at that range and one side crumbled.

In our second match (1812) I was not so happy. One of Dierk's small groups(about 15 guys)in extended line fired, and nailed 9 or 10 mounted dragoons and routed the rest. That did not seem very realistic even at one hex. In our current game a company of British Regulars in extended line formation fired from 4 hexes (they were on a hill) and hit 5 American regular infantry in line formation. That also seem's a bit high to me.

Either the roll's went Dierk's way, or the PDT parameters may need to be changed for longer ranges. I don't even know what they are.

I did lose the game with the Indians and win the FIW one, but I am sure that couldn't be affecting my perception. [:D]

Nita Hopaii Ed Blackburn
Cherokee
Author:  Rich Hamilton [ Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thomas - see the scenario designers notes for both 1812 or FIW to find out details on it. It shipped with both games.

Rich
Author:  Al Amos [ Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Another thread has mentioned strategic movement, so I'll throw out this idea.

I am toying around with changing the night turns. I mean really how fun is it marching around with 1 hex visibility?

I'm thinking of changing the night turn to 60 minutes. This would allow multi-day actions such as ....

Forces clash an hour before dark and have reinfrocements arrive in the pre-dawn hours. So players could jockey for position the night before, then do some deployment/redeployment of forces and fight a good battle the next day....without clicking through 60 turns of dark.

Changing the fatigue recovery rate for night could be in order, but I wouldn't need to change movement. The slow movement would nicely, IMO, reflect the difficulties of moving troops at night. It is too easy in the basic game.
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Another angle is to have a pdt file devoted to night fighting. To do this the pdt file would have the twilight range of 250 yards or so, (6 hexes) with the times set so it covers the night time hours with turn times set at 5 or 10 minutes.
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