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The joys of serving in the Russian Army in 1807 https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10127 |
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Author: | HarryInk [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | The joys of serving in the Russian Army in 1807 |
I've been listening on iPod to Librivox's recordings of War and Peace. Just passed through the LOL chapter about Benningsen's carry-on in 1807 when he was angling for command of the Russian army and was trying to avoid obeying Buxhowden, his superior. Here http://www.bibliomania.com/0/0/52/96.../frameset.html is the text from another site. I checked Petre, my only handy reference, and indeed Benningsen did make a carry-on about it. (p.89 &PtIII, Ch.1, p.129) Is this a Russian tradition? I think of Kutusov and Bagration in 1812? |
Author: | HarryInk [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:36 am ] |
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Woot! Brief Remarks on the Character and Composition of the Russian Army, and a Sketch of the Campaigns in Poland in the Years 1806 and 1807: And a Sketch of the Campaigns in Poland in the Years 1806 and 1807 By Robert Thomas Wilson Published by Printed by C. Roworth, and sold by T. Egerton, 1810 Original from Oxford University Digitized May 19, 2006 276 pages http://books.google.com/books?id=kikAAAAAQAAJ&oe=UTF-8 Available in pdf Can anyone suggest a good map of the 1807 area of operations I could download? |
Author: | Bill Peters [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:45 am ] |
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What chapter in Tolstoy is that in? Colonel Bill Peters Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come) |
Author: | Kosyanenko [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
1. The reference is not correct. Pages are useless and ch.1 of part 3 tells nothing about the campaign of 1807. At least because it describes november 1805. 2. I can't recall any trouble between Bagration and Kutuzov in 1812. 3. In many armies subordinates tried not to follow orders they didn't like. Specially when it was a matter of command. To name a few - Jerome Bonaparte declined to obey his brother's order to become subordinate to Davout and left the army. Murat declined to take command of the army after Napoleons leave and left shortly after him. Leaving the army to Eugene. 4. There was another tradition in Russian army. When commander higher in rank (or with seniority within the same rank) came with reinforcements he voluntary subordinated himself to the one who was already in fight. Examples are Miloradovich who subordinated Bagration in 1799 at Lecco and Bagration who subordinated Barclay. There were numerous examples in 1808-09 in Finland and in 1812-1814. It will take time to find them though. When needed references are so difficult to find[:I] 5. There is a map date 1847 here http://www.davidrumsey.com/maps1239.html <center> ![]() <center><b>Eyo Imperatorskogo Velichestva Leib-Kirassirskogo polku General-Lieutenant Anton Valeryevich Kosyanenko Commander of the Second Army of the West </b></center> |
Author: | HarryInk [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:19 am ] |
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Bill, the Tolstoy reference is Chapter 9 of Part/Book 5. The other reference is to my copy of Petre (2001 edition, though seemingly a facsimile of an earlier edition) where, indeed, Part 3 Chapter 1 is 'Benningsen becomes commander-in-chief' and refers to January 1807. About Bagration and Kutusov: you are so right Kosyanenko. It was not Kutusov but Barclay de Tolly I meant. D'oh! And the map reference is subperb! Thank you. I was trawling that collection last night but didn't find that particular map. Ta. ![]() |
Author: | Bill Peters [ Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:47 am ] |
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Yup, saw the ref. to Petre. Thanks for the chapter ref. Barclay de Tolly should have been in overall command at Borodino. The distrust of foreigners taking its Toll (pun) on those Germans/Other Non-Russians-Who-Were-Obviously-Trying-To-Ruin-Russia who were in the service of the Czar/Tsar/Zarr (punning again). In short, the Russians had alot of petty jealousies just like the French and Austrians. Oh yeah and Prussians too (this for Scott!)![:D] Colonel Bill Peters Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt and ... more to come) |
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