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Question on MOE Rules
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10148		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ed Blackburn [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Question on MOE Rules
Hi all, Zbysek Pietras and I are playing a game using embedded melees and MOE rules and we have a question. I have just made a move with following sequence:

1. I advanced a squadron to a creek crossing where there movement was stopped by one of Z's squadrons on the ohter side.

2. I charged his squadron and during the embedded melee phase pushed his squadron off the crossing hex.

3. I moved other cavalry units across the creek through the meleed hex and dispersed to the other side, they did not conduct additional melees.

Z believes it was against the embedded melee rule for me to move through the meleed hex and I believe it was fine as long as they did not conduct additonal melees.

I am referencing the follwoing rule:

<i>The player may move and/or fire as many units as he wishes, setting up his melée combats for the turn. He then executes ALL melée combats. He may then move and/or fire any units still eligible to do so, but may not conduct any further melée combat for the remainder of the turn. Players will have to agree on whether or not the optional rule or the embedded melee phase, or both, is in effect.</i>

I am going do redo my last move if my interpretation is incorrect.[;)]




Major General Ed Blackburn
Commanding Second Div, II Corps, AAA
3rd Bn / 1st Regiment of Foot Guards
Image
Author:  Neville Worland [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Sir Muddy is of course the arbiter of the rules, but it seems pretty clear to me. We have an "embedded melee" rule, not a "melee phase", that occurs after all movement for the turn. The whole idea of the rule is to allow limited exploitation of melees as you have described.

Lt Colonel Neville Worland
Chef d'Etat-Major
Ier Corps de Réserve de Cavalerie
Army du Nord
Author:  Sir Muddy [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Sir:

Your interpretation is correct. You may move units after the embedded melee phase through hexes that were previously occupied by enemy or friendly units but no more combat can occur. Units can move through the gap but not expand it.

You could of course agree that the embedded melee phase occur at the end of all movement, but that is not necessary. The idea was to stop blitzkrieg tactics.



FM Sir 'Muddy' Jones, KG
2nd Life Guards, Household Cavalry
Author:  Zbyszek Pietras [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:47 am ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Sir Muddy</i>

You could of course agree that the embedded melee phase occur at the end of all movement, but that is not necessary. The idea was to stop blitzkrieg tactics.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Sir,

I understand there are two possible options:

1. the embedded melee phase occur at the end of all movement and there are not allowed any moves

2. the embedded melee phase occur at the end of all movement and there are possible moves without melees

this is correct?

regards,

<center><font color="orange"><h4> Marechal Zbyszek Pietras
1er Regiment de Chasseurs a Cheval, Vieille Garde
16th Division V Corps Armee du Rhin</font id="orange">
<font color="orange">Duc de Danzig, Comte de Bourges</font id="orange"></h4></center>
Author:  Sir Muddy [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:58 am ]
Post subject: 
M. Pietras:

No, the embedded melee phase can occur anytime during a player's turn. But after melees start, all melees must be finished, and then a player can move additional units but none of those units are allowed to melee. They can fire, capture leaders and wagons, cavalry can overrun skirmishers, but no melees can occur.

Example, say an enemy unit blocks the road. I can attack that unit early in my turn and push it out of the way, and then move my entire army down the road. But I cannot melee anyone else after the "phase" where I attacked the unit in the road. I could have attacked other units at the same time but once melees are concluded and movement occurs, then no more melees can be initiated.

FM Sir 'Muddy' Jones, KG
2nd Life Guards, Household Cavalry
Author:  Zbyszek Pietras [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sir,

It seems I trough about this one when I wrote 2. point. Thanks for reply and help.




<center><font color="orange"><h4> Marechal Zbyszek Pietras
1er Regiment de Chasseurs a Cheval, Vieille Garde
16th Division V Corps Armee du Rhin</font id="orange">
<font color="orange">Duc de Danzig, Comte de Bourges</font id="orange"></h4></center>
Author:  Ed Blackburn [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sir Muddy and LTC Worland, we thank you for your replys and the clarification.[:)]

Major General Ed Blackburn
Commanding Second Div, II Corps, AAA
3rd Bn / 1st Regiment of Foot Guards
Image
Author:  dean beecham [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Guys just jumping in here . its nothing to do with the MOE rules as they are today.
But i am sure when the rules were first done by Bill Peterson. A unit could not move through a hex that a attack came from .

It was that what stop the Blitz and moving units to surround an enemy unit ..

So with the rules as they are . if members dont use the NME as on. there units will still be able to get surronded and ZOC..

And it was that why the Rules were made up ..

With the Rules as they are now Ed is right in what he done.. But some may still remember the first rule set and some times get mixed up with them..



<font color="red">Maréchal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red">
<font color="blue">La</font id="blue"> Commandeur, <font color="red">II Corps</font id="red">
ADN

Prince d` Istria et Comte d` Arles La Jeune Garde
Image
"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"
Author:  Colin Knox [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
An interesting discussion sirs. This is the problem with house rules and the reason I prefer Jena where embedded melee is not so essential.

However I am thinking Jena would benefit from a house rule whereby you cannot blitz attack an artillery battery if you have to force a unit out of the way first. This combined with NME and the lower movements and various other things (eg better firepower)could make for a great system. I understand Bill's new title has 10min moves so we will have more than one game in this form soon.

Salute!


General de Brigade Knox
Baron de l'Empire
2e Regiment Gardes d'Honneur (the regaled pheasants)
La Jeune Garde
CO. 1er Brigade, III Division Cavalerie Legere, III Corps Armee du Nord
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm

Image
Author:  Zbyszek Pietras [ Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by dean beecham</i>
With the Rules as they are now Ed is right in what he done.. But some may still remember the first rule set and some times get mixed up with them..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Good point! Well I remember it :)



<center><font color="orange"><h4> Marechal Zbyszek Pietras
1er Regiment de Chasseurs a Cheval, Vieille Garde
16th Division V Corps Armee du Rhin</font id="orange">
<font color="orange">Duc de Danzig, Comte de Bourges</font id="orange"></h4></center>
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