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The Jena OB Project
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10697		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  The Jena OB Project
I am going to correct the Jena OBs this week. Anyone that knows of elite French regiments (line and legere) please list them here.

The 57th Ligne and the 9th Legere come to mind but if anyone else knows of a French regiment of this time period (1806) that was considered better than the rest please let me know.

Otherwise the French infantry will be reduced a level. Most of Davout's corps will remain as is (his corps was acknowledged to be better than most).

I also am going to be doing some things to the Auerstadt battle such that it is not an Allied walkover. I will be changing the VP objectives and adding in some changes to the Allies as well.

Two of the 15 min. version scenarios would not open for me and this has been corrected.

After I finish these changes and add in a scenario or two I will ship the files off to John Tiller and the update for the game will be made available.

I am working on Eckmuhl and Wagram as well. Adding in weather lines for the former (as the weather for the Wagram battles was mainly good) and perhaps a map change to the Landshut area (swampy north of the city based on Gill's recent book). These games will be updated as well.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come)
Not the President of the Musket and Cannon Club
Image
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Memory, memory, if anyone can remember what page in Bowden's books where he lists elite French units please let me know.

I have his 1805 book on Austerlitz and his 1809 book Armies of the Danube.

He listed elite French units in one or both of them but I can only find the page in Armies on the Danube that is for the Austrians.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come)
Not the President of the Musket and Cannon Club
Image
Author:  Al Amos [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Bill,

If you still have Bowden's Empire III he lists his favorites in it, too.

Colonel Al Amos
1ère Brigade Commandant, 2ème Division de Dragons "Gare aux Dragons!"
Ier Corps de Réserve de Cavalerie "Vae Victis!"
L'Armée du Nord
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
I dont have any of the Empire rule books anymore. Got rid of them many years ago.

If you have any of them and could scan in the pages or send me a list I would appreciate it.

I seem to remember he rated a Chasseur and Hussar regiment highly as well.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come)
Not the President of the Musket and Cannon Club
Image
Author:  clifton seeney [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:53 am ]
Post subject: 
The 18th line was better then the 57th ! will give details later.the 32nd and the 34th,the 9th Legere 23rd Chass all were Elite.

General de Brig Kliff Marbot
II Corps Art Res Division .Commander
Marechal de Camp AN
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Well and you know, its mainly to cut down on the high morale average. We can still have several elite regiments of course but in the end I want to reduce the average French line unit to 4 and so on.

You cant take away from this army what they were - the best that Napoleon ever commanded, better than the Hundred Days army by far (which was brittle and smashed like a porcelin jar when dropped on the concrete of the Allies attack).

Anyway, any info you can give me will help. I plan on spending part of Monday getting this done.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come)
Not the President of the Musket and Cannon Club
Image
Author:  Genghis [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bill
I tried to scan the appropriate Appendix pages from Empire IV which provided information on "Specially Rated Regiments". Unfortunately the scans were blurred by the gray high lighting. Therefore, I am sending you the following list instead.

French Infantry:
30th, 32nd, 34th Line (Morale Class -Elites) any time
57th, 84th Line (Morale Class -Grenadiers) 1796-1812
Trailleurs du Po/Corses (Morale Class -Grenadiers) 1805-1811,
11th Legere -1st & 2nd Battalions (Morale Class -Grenadiers) 1811-1815,
9th, 10th Legere (Morale Class -Grenadiers) any time
Converged Elites (Morale Class -Elites)1796-1805

If you want the info on specially rated Russian Infantry, let me know. There were no Austrian units listed as special.

Shtabs-Kapitan Bill Cann
New Russian Dragoon Regt
13th Brigade,IV Cav.Corps
2nd Russian Army
Image
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey, thanks for the info. If you have any info on the cavalry let me know. Usually Scott Bowden would list a Chasseur a Cheval regiment or a Hussar regiment too.

For now the French are all I am working on. I have the elite regiments for the Prussians of this period.

Leaving the Russians as is.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come)
Not the President of the Musket and Cannon Club
Image
Author:  Genghis [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Bill
Here is the info for French, Russian and Austrian Cavalry from Empire IV, Appendix B, p. 179: (Unintended are special, while indented are regular ratings).

French Cavalry
1st, 5th Chasseurs a Cheval (Morale Class - Elites) any time
7th, 23rd Chasseurs a Cheval (Morale Class - Grenadiers) any time
other Chasseurs a Cheval (Morale Class - Crack Line) 1804-1807
4th, 5th, 7th Hussars (Morale Class - Grenadiers) any time
other Hussars (Morale Class - Elites) 1804-1807
Dragoons (Morale Class - Crack Line) 1804-1807
Cuirassiers (Morale Class - Grenadiers) 1804-1807
All Guard Cavalry except Empress Dragoons are rated Old Guard.
Empress Dragoons (Morale Class - Guard) 1806-1815

Russian Cavalry

Hussars (Morale Class - Grenadiers) 1805-1812
Uhlans (Morale Class - Crack Line) 1791-1812
St. Petersburg Dragoons (Morale Class - Elites) any time
Dragoons (Morale Class - Veterans) any time
Cuirassiers (Morale Class - Grenadiers) any time



















<b></b><b></b><b></b><u></u>

Shtabs-Kapitan Bill Cann
New Russian Dragoon Regt
13th Brigade,IV Cav.Corps
2nd Russian Army
Image
Author:  Genghis [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:12 am ]
Post subject: 
Bill
Sorry, I hit the wrong key and sent the message before completing the information. I provided info that may also be of use for the Austerlitz game

Russian Cavalry
Don Cossacks (Morale Class - Landwehr) any time
other Cossacks (Morale Class - Trained Militia) any time

Austrian Cavalry
O'Reilly Chevauxleger (Morale Class - Grenadier) any time
Klenau & Vincent Chevauxleger (Morale Class - Elites) any time
other Chevauxleger (Morale Class - Trained Militia) 1791-1809
Blankenstein Hussars (Morale Class - Grenadiers) any time
other Hussars (Morale Class - Grenadiers) 1791-1809
Uhlans(Morale Class - Crack Line) 1791-1809
Erz. Johann Dragoons (Morale Class - Elites) any time
other Dragoons (Morale Class - Crack Line) any time
Cuirassiers (Morale Class - Grenadiers) 1791-1809

The EMPIRE IV Morale Ratings are as follows
ACE/Morale Class/Chance to Fail Morale
22/ French Old Guard/ -15%
18/ Guards/ -10%
16/ Grenadiers/ -05%
14/ Elites/ -02%
12/ Crack Line/ 00%
10/ Veteran Line/ 03%
08/ Conscript Line/ 08%
07/ Landwehr/ 09%
05/ Trained Militia/ 13%
03/ Untrained Militia/ 19%

Because I am an ardent admirer of the Russian Army, I decided to send you the specially rated information about Russian Infantry anyway;

Catherine the Great Battalion (Morale Class - Crack Line) any time
Kexholm Regiment (Morale Class - Elites) any time
Penovsky Regiment (Morale Class - Elites) any time
Kiev Regiment (Morale Class - Elites) 1805-1812
Schusselberg Regiment (Morale Class - Elites) 1805-1814
Tomsk Regiment (Morale Class - Conscripts) any time
Apcherin Regiment (Morale Class - Conscripts) any time
1st, 6th, 40th Jagers (Morale Class - Elites) 1811-1815

I hope this information is useful. Bill




Shtabs-Kapitan Bill Cann
New Russian Dragoon Regt
13th Brigade,IV Cav.Corps
2nd Russian Army
Image
Author:  Kosyanenko [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Bill,

A few notes. A bit off topic. In case you ever decide to use them:

1. in CPJ on the large map at Rudolstadt a palace of Heidecksburg is missing. It was built in first half of XVIII century and didn't suffer during the WW2. Hence modern photos represent it well enough. One of the eye-pleasing photos http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/d ... -Nacht.JPG some info may be found on Wikipedia here http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidecksburg and more extensive on the sites of the palace (including several photos from the palace).
Taking what we can see into account hexes (337-338,494) should be three notches higher (to represent the high walls and give the whole building appropriate line of sight) with embanks on the outer sides and high walls on the inner sides of them. Exception is the North-East side of hex (338,494) which should be a hedge with a road passing down to meet with the pike.

2. Again in CPJ the fortification at Arnstadt appears to be more solid that it is represented on the map. A few photos here
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/17008452 - Eastern gates
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/11631801 - Southern gates and it's Tower. The main towns sight - das Reidtot.
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/21096853 a wall on the Western side.
More about the town here http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnstadt
Overall the fortification should be high walls instead of walls.

3. In Eagle campaign of CPA British batallions are placed inside Martello towers. it is impossible. The tower was designed to contain one or two guns and 24 men. A company of skirms plus one-two horse guns seems ok. Provided that according to house rules guns can't be relocated. 700 man strong batallion is not. There is a nice extensive article on the Towers here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martello_tower

<center>Image</center>
<center><b>Eyo Imperatorskogo Velichestva Leib-Kirassirskogo polku
General-Adjutant Anton Valeryevich Kosyanenko
Commander of the Second Army of the West </b></center>
Author:  Bill Peters [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for your comments Bill. Much appreciated.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come)
Not the President of the Musket and Cannon Club
Image
Author:  Antony Barlow [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:10 am ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Kosyanenko</i>
<br />3. In Eagle campaign of CPA British batallions are placed inside Martello towers. it is impossible. The tower was designed to contain one or two guns and 24 men. A company of skirms plus one-two horse guns seems ok. Provided that according to house rules guns can't be relocated. 700 man strong batallion is not. There is a nice extensive article on the Towers here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martello_tower<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Bill, Anton is right about the Martello Towers. They had a 24 pounder gun on top which could traverse 360 degrees. I visited 3 such towers in Ireland in August and they are very small but strong with just enough space for the small garrison to live (about 25 men), and practically no space for any additional infantry (hardly any space on top alongside the gun and very few windows below). Here's a great site on the subject with illustrations on the tower designs and armament: http://www.martello-towers.co.uk/index.html

The England campaign is a real treat and adds extra value to what is a great Austerlitz game. Thanks for spending so much time going over Jena again too. It is appreciated.[:)]

<center>[url="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.r.barlow/nwc/nwc_personal_record.htm"]Brigadier General Antony Barlow[/url]
~ [url="http://home.scarlet.be/~tsh40803/AAA/Brit.html"]2nd British (Union) Brigade, Cavalry Division, II Corps, Anglo-Allied Army[/url] ~
----------
~ [url="http://home.scarlet.be/~tsh40803/AAA/BritGuardHorse.html"]4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon Guards[/url] ~
Image</center>
Author:  Prince Repnin [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:25 am ]
Post subject: 
I guess, the best and most complete source of that kind of infos is the Jim Getz and Scott Bowden's CHEF DE BATAILLON (Book I) manual for the tactical miniatures wargaming from The Emperor's Press.
There are appendixes: Leader Ratings, Cavalry Data, Infantry Data, Artillery Data. The datas provide all info we need: leader's Professional skill, Inspirational impact (for army, for corps, for division); unit's Eliteness, ACE, organization and tactics, Specially rated regiments' info etc. for different years and theaters of war, and for all main and even minor forces - participants of Napoleonic wars.
The source is the truly "golden floor" for you, Bill.
Enjoy. [^]

Image
General-Adjutant Prince Vladimir Repnin
2nd Grenadier Division
8th Corps
2nd Russian Army,
His Imperial Majesty
Chevalier Guards' Chief
Image
Author:  Bill Peters [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Hey guys, please do not hijack this thread and change it to comments about Austerlitz. I am asking this nicely.

I have contacted John Corbin about this thread and am asking him to remove any posts that take it off topic again.

Its about Jena, I am allowing you to participate in discussion on the future update. Austerlitz already has had its update.

Here is my last response on anything said here not about Jena:

I have no plans of changing the maps in Jena at this point where it regards city features. I have made a map change to the large map concerning a major road route.

Yes, I knew about the Martelo towers and the guns. I chose to leave them out. Its a fictional campaign anyway, the British Army OB I used was partly fictional, its a what-if campaign and I wont even try and defend the OB for the British. I tried to use units that I knew were in England.

Finally, I am about ready to stop using this forum as a means of collecting information. I am trying to remain cool about this have indicated such to Paco and John in an email today.

If you post a thread about a tourny I am not going to hijack it and turn it into an AAR about a Borodino game I played.

Please use good forum sense here. And I know that some of you were trying to be helpful. One person is just here to be disruptive. I care not anymore what he has to say because he turned one of our threads into a personal attack. He knows who he is, I have asked John to monitor this individual. I am not going to address him publically anymore. Sad it got to that but I dont need to hear every time I post here from someone that is going to slam dunk my friends, Mark and Joe, everytime he comments on our product.

Its either no hijacking or I will just keep my comments within our team. I hope it doesn't go to that as I wish to have open discussions. I like the input as long as it can stay off of the personal level.

Colonel Bill Peters
Armee du Rhin - V Corps, Cavalerie du V Corps, 20ème légère Brigade de Cavalerie, 13ème Hussar Regiment
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come)
Not the President of the Musket and Cannon Club
Image
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