Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)
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No Artillery blitz house rule - playtest
https://www.wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10828		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Colin Knox [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  No Artillery blitz house rule - playtest
Hi All
A while ago I posted about the idea of having a simple house rule as a replacment to embedded melee.

My idea is you could replace it with 'The no artillery blitz rule' a simple rule that works as follows:

You cannot blitz a unit out of the way to reach and melee and unlimbered battery

The exceptions are: Cavalry using their follow up capability and also you can blitz a skirmish, supply or officer unit out of the way.

This new house rule was really intended for the 10 min moves with NME ticked. Not 15 minute although I am sure it would be quite good for those as well.

Tim Goodwin and I are up to move27 in Austerlitz historical using this new rule. I can report it works extremely well. It allows you to move and fire and melee without restriction. It's chief effect is the power of artillery assummes it's same status as embedded melee and using the 3 arms in unison remains key.

I recommend it for players who do not like to many house rules but want artillery to have the historical status it had in the N wars.

Salute!



General de Brigade Knox
Grand Duc d'Austerlitz et Comte de Argentan

Image

Escadron Mamelouks
Chasseurs a'Cheval
Division de Cavalerie la Vieille Garde.

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CO. 1er Brigade, II Heavy Cavalry Division, Reserve Cavalry.
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm
Author:  Bill Peters [ Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, this can be a way to keep the artillery safe. Another is to just place the artillery to where it dominates the approach route. With the 10 min. moves you can get up cavalry as the opposing cavalry moves up. You should be able to set up artillery easily on the Austerlitz battlefield (its VERY open) to where cavalry cannot just attack you suddenly in one turn. Examples are the Pratzen Heights hexes where cavalry would not be able to hide and then pop out and overrun guns.

If I see cavarly coming up I just toss out a bn. of infantry in square in front of the guns. You can move them out of the way with infantry more than one hex as they will shown "Has Meleed" and cavalry surely wont attack them. Two Russian squares in front of a grand battery usually does the trick! [;)]

I am convinced from playtesting that the French have a very uphill fight in the historical situations. I probably need to tweak the victory levels in favor of the Allies in some of the scenarios but frankly in our games the Allied guns are a real menace. Not as much for the less numerous French guns. Russian artillery is truly an awesome factor in the game along with their larger cavalry squadrons. Commanded correctly the Allies have an edge in cavalry and definitely in guns.

I hope that this series never gets the artillery rules of the ACW series. I have not asked for them at all. It would just make it another "popup gun" fest.

Colonel Bill Peters, 17th Dragoons, III Corps, French Army
HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram, Jena-Auerstaedt, Austerlitz and ... more to come)
Swiss-Swedish Army CinC, Musket and Cannon Game Club - Come over and see what we are all about!
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Author:  Colin Knox [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Bill I agree with you re ACW not that impressed with the system. I prefer HPS Napoleonic.

Re Austerlitz yes I am attacking Tim's massed artillery at the moment, I have found an interesting route though.

Salute
Colin

General de Brigade Knox
Grand Duc d'Austerlitz et Comte de Argentan

Image

Escadron Mamelouks
Chasseurs a'Cheval
Division de Cavalerie la Vieille Garde.

Image



CO. 1er Brigade, II Heavy Cavalry Division, Reserve Cavalry.
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm
Author:  Ed Blackburn [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi Colin,

I used embedded melee to prevent the blitz type of tactics where palyer does a move-melee-move-melee sequence ad nauseum completley in violation of the more linear tactics of the time. I don't see how this rule would help with that. It seems like a nice rule to use WITH embedded melee and NME but not as a replacement for it. I also like to use the MOE rules for limiting skirms to leashes, emplacing cannon in Chateaus etc to keep things more historical.[:)]

Lieutenant General
Ed Blackburn
Commanding Second Div, II Corps, AAA
3rd Bn / 1st Regiment of Foot Guards
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Author:  Colin Knox [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Ed it's intended as a compromise that allows players who use the game engine to its full to play against more historically orientated players. I like historical but the embedded melee rule is a bit tedious at times.

In the case of Tim and I our battle is going very historically. The 10 minute moves combined with no arty blitz make for fairly limited blitz options.



General de Brigade Knox
Grand Duc d'Austerlitz et Comte de Argentan

Image

Escadron Mamelouks
Chasseurs a'Cheval
Division de Cavalerie la Vieille Garde.

Image



CO. 1er Brigade, II Heavy Cavalry Division, Reserve Cavalry.
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm
Author:  dean beecham [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi Colin.
I am all for new rules to make these games play more historical.and always try new ways with guys i play against.

But if you have this rule for Art only.. and no Embeded rule.. you will start guys doing that old way of punching there way though a line of Inf ..

( send in a column to push the first line out the way then send in another 2 column to start surrounding them.. you only need to get one unit past that first line to stop a player from retreating his unit.. )

With the Embeded rule this can not be done . as a unit can not melee again from the hex a melee has already been done. So in the case of Art with a unit in front to support it .. it should not be taken . or will get the chance to move of..

With the embeded .. only skirmisher units can be meleed and then another melee can take place from that Hex.. same gos for Cav with a second charge ..

Ed and i are in a Campaign game here .. with the embeded rule and NME on.. and it plays very Historic i think. Yes guns have been lost but most of them from retreating not in the line ..

Just a thought on what i can see.

<font color="red">Maréchal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red">
<font color="blue">La</font id="blue"> Commandeur, <font color="red">I Corps</font id="red">

ImageImage
Prince d` Istria et Comte d` Arles La Jeune Garde

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"
Author:  Colin Knox [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi Dean
I trust you are well. I agree it does allow such tactics although there is less incentive for them.

If such tactics bother players its probably not the rule for them. I like both forms so I don't mind.

I believe the blitz tactics if artillery is untouched are not really that favourable anyway and can be countered. So I don't mind if someone uses them.

I also am quite happy to play embedded melee especially with 15min moves I was just trying to create something that removed the need for it in the 10 min version. Nothing mandatory![:D]

Regards




General de Brigade Knox
Grand Duc d'Austerlitz et Comte de Argentan

Image

Escadron Mamelouks
Chasseurs a'Cheval
Division de Cavalerie la Vieille Garde.

Image



CO. 1er Brigade, II Heavy Cavalry Division, Reserve Cavalry.
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm
Author:  dean beecham [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Colin .
i am doing fine . maybe spending to much time at the computer ,[:D]

I only put down what came to mind. , and thats only because i remember those days when these games were not that much fun with the blitz and ZOC what went on..

with the embeded and the NME rules that came out it was great , and i have never looked back ..
Saying this there are guys i have played many games with now and would play with what you have down . as i Know they would not go for the Blitz and ZOC game play. and so the game would play as good as if we were playing with the embeded ..

and i would say you are one of those that any one could play against were these rules would work great . i know your a Historical player .. been there and got my butt kicked. but that was great , not my butt being kicked . the fun of our battle. [;)]

That reminds me was we ment to start up an MP game .. you and Tomaz against me and Paco. ...

anyway . always great to see some one working on new rules.. ..

<font color="red">Maréchal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red">
<font color="blue">La</font id="blue"> Commandeur, <font color="red">I Corps</font id="red">

ImageImage
Prince d` Istria et Comte d` Arles La Jeune Garde

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"
Author:  Al Amos [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:36 am ]
Post subject: 
So what's wrong with Phased Play, Auto Defensive Fire, playing historically. Doesn't that stop the blitz. Why all the house rules?

Colonel Amos, 1ère Brigade Commandant, 2ème Division de Dragons
Author:  Colin Knox [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Hey Al
Actually a lot of members play with embedded melee and other house rules. My idea is to try and reduce the number of rules with this very simple rule. I think it can increase your opponent pool.

And Dean I agree I only play with NME now. That ZOC kill thing is not my preference for sure.

regards



General de Brigade Knox
Grand Duc d'Austerlitz et Comte de Argentan

Image

Escadron Mamelouks
Chasseurs a'Cheval
Division de Cavalerie la Vieille Garde.

Image



CO. 1er Brigade, II Heavy Cavalry Division, Reserve Cavalry.
http://www.aspire.co.nz/colinknoxnwc.htm
Author:  Al Amos [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Colin,

I find plenty of opponents. What I can't find is enough time to play and design much. [:(]

Colonel Amos, 1ère Brigade Commandant, 2ème Division de Dragons
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